Namba Voting for Modification and Additions for Electric 1/8 Scale Unlimited Hydro"

[madmikepags]

NO I'm not I'm gonna blow *!***!***!***!** up every round

[T.S.Davis]

Double post......

[madmikepags]

They wanna go slower!!! this is not the way!!! the way we did it in our district BC we run nitro and electric together is no elecric boat was allowed to go over 52mph, checked by GPS with a 3 mph grace due to wind, water and gps inaccuracy and other factors. You can pick up GPS units for 25-30 bucks, throw them in the boat for each heat. Simple easy and cheap, and if your club cant afford 150-200 bucks then ur club sucks.

[T.S.Davis]

Mike, you missed the boat. The time to throw a fit was before it was voted on. Yer screwed now.

What other NAMBA FE event is there in NA that you attend anyway?. Kind of irrelevant at this point.

[Ken Haines]

Guys I'm pulling some discussion over here from International Waters
The Thread is titled "ELECTRIC RULES" started by Lohring Miller....here it is:
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As everyone knows electric motor input power in watts equals volts times amps. The similar relationship in piston engines is power equals cylinder pressure times displacement times rpm. Regulating the displacement in IC engines forced innovations that resulted in smaller engines with higher cylinder pressures operating at higher rpm to generate the same power. Think the 1956 Chrysler 300 versus today's Honda Civic type R both with around 300 hp. This pace was slow in both model and full size engines. However a 1950s model engine like the McCoy 60 produced around 1 hp while today's similar size, tuned pipe engines can produce over 4 hp.
Today something is happening much more quickly in electric power. Think golf carts versus the Tesla model S. Lithium polymer batteries were a game changer. Their very low internal resistance allows much higher currents than previous battery types. Before this batteries were the limiting factor. By only regulating input voltage with lithium polymer batteries we encourage innovation in motors and speed controls. This innovation today allows close to 30 hp input power (600 amps times 37 volts) for short times like SAW runs. With 1200 mah packs 400 amps will still give a 1.8 minute run time, enough for a standard heat race. Commercially available speed controls can deliver over 300 amps when water cooled.
One solution has been the P limited classes. By restricting the motor, it becomes the "fuse" limiting power. If you restrict the ESC choice, that limits power as well with the ESC as the "fuse". How expensive do you want this current limiting method to be? Motors are getting inexpensive. The fastest P limited racer in our club paid $27 for his motor. Competition airplanes use a more elegant solution involving electronic controls that limit input power. Simpler solutions that have been race tested involve limiting propeller diameter as well as motor KV and size.
Another solution has been to limit hull length. I watched Brian Buaas set two lap records in several voltage classes with the same small sport hydro. It just got harder to drive at the higher power levels. T class boats can be 60" long, the NAMBA maximum. The most powerful IC engines in a twin configuration probably deliver around 10 to 15 hp. Do we really want to allow electric power plants with more than twice that? What are some other current limiting rule proposals?
Lohring Miller
PS: Engineering is done with numbers. Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Reply By Ken Haines

Lohring, here is the problem; those of us that race all over the country were not any part of this new scale rule.
You can theorize all you want and that is definitely opinion, but up until recently our current rule set worked. Additionally this 1/8th scale unlimited Hydra class was gaining popularity at some of the larger races with the original rule set. I actually very recently bought some of this equipment that now is illegal in NAMBA. So instead of setting up a limited rule set or actually new limited version class for the Northwest region clubs someone decided to just set the class on its head. It would be on par with the P-Ltd rule set being put in place for all the regular P Classes, and all the current P-Mono’s, P-Cat’s and P-Hydro’s then being illegal. Now you can debate here with all this technical jargon but most of the avid active racers in the rest of the country are upset. According to the way the rules can get passed someone that races very minimally or regionally at the most could in theory get a rule passed that limits many other classes across the country. My guess is that the NAMBA fuel guys voted yes because they thought with info that they had heard this was a good thing. This is why when a rule change that is not for electric, I simply abstain as it is really none of my business. I would hope in the future our electric rule votes would be respected in the same way.

On an older note weren’t you one of the crowd years ago arguing against hull limits and against 2p lipo set-ups. If I am wrong on that recollection I apologize, but that is what I seem to remember of the time that I visited your club at the 2007 Nat's. I believe we had a heated argument about that during my visit.....Kind of Ironic

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Reply by Mike Hughes
Not all fuel guys vote for it. My son and I voted against. Not fair to limit the class that way. Now people with the 10S are illegal.

Mike
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Reply by Bill Brandt
World Racer

To propose a rule change, as I was told by our district director, a club has to run that rule for at least one year. RCU has been running this proposed rule for 3 years. My Texas friends reached out to me and together we proposed this change, although done through our District 8.
Once again the Namba Nats in Las Vegas were very lightly supported by 1/8 FE, in part because of the existing poor rule. Most areas that run 1/8 Scale FE run 8S. They run motors and escs that were readily available and new racers didn’t have to go through a steep and often expensive learning curve to race.
It appears that most dissenters of the rule change don’t themselves run the class. If they are advocates of 10S it’s usually because they’re from clubs that combine nitro and FE because they don’t have stand alone numbers.
If there aren’t enough motor choices then look for other 850 kv motors that will work and propose them down the road.
My customers across the US and in fact around the globe have applauded the change and the clarity it brings to 1/8 Scale FE
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Ok....I threw the meat on the table please reply appropriately maybe over on IW.
Thx, Ken Haines

[Doby]

"The maximum mAh capacity of the battery pack(s) will not exceed 6000 mAh."

So 6000 max on board during the race?
Or would 2, 8S packs of 6000 mah each in parallel for 12000 mah be allowed?

Ambiguity is a wonderfully confusing thing!

[madmikepags]

Oh and my 24 Castle Hydra controllers that don't have the stickers on them are illegal too, because they are not labeled?????
HOLY CRAP!!! LOL

[madmikepags]

Hey John thats great the way it's written you can run 2 8s 6000mah packs 12000mah!!!! Again like I said no one really thought it out, now they have to come up w another rule proposal next year to correct that!!!!! LMFAO!!!
OH MY NERVES STOOOOPID!!!

[Doby]

Hey John thats great the way it's written you can run 2 8s 6000mah packs 12000mah!!!! Again like I said no one really thought it out, now they have to come up w another rule proposal next year to correct that!!!!! LMFAO!!!
OH MY NERVES STOOOOPID!!!

Exactly..could put 24,000 mah in there and it would still be good to go.

[madmikepags]

Oh and another one!!! I have to find another battery manufacturer and lose my sponsorship because my batteries are all 70C. This thing keeps getting worso and worse. So to juist convert ONE of my scale boats to be legal I need a new motor, speedo and batts $700 bucks bare minimum!!! wow thats rteally saving me $$$
STOOPID STOOPID STOOPID
Wondering if you guys proposing this fell out of the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down.
Bunch of selfish pricks!!!
I bet you guys saw videos of mine and doug twaits boats run and got scared!!! or maybe ur just so stupid you couldn't get a 10s boat to run fast without flipping it. Or Maybe ur so dumb that you dont understand that higher voltage+Higher efficiency. OR maybe ur just a bunch of ignorant dumbasses!!!!

[madmikepags]

you know what? next year I'm gonna buy a million dollars of giant power batteries, propose a rule that they are the only legal battery and I will give them away to every club that votes for my proposal. Who wouldn't vote for that!!! Oh BTW Giant power Batteries are all 70C so ur scale class will be illegal to run!!!! Just ask anyone who knows me I have the money and I will do it!!!!

[jaike5]

Lmao, that’s the mike I know..... on point!!

[Brewbud]

Hard to believe this passed. Seemed like trying to fix something that ain't broke. It was an easy no vote for me once I learned it would eliminate so many of the 1/8th boat setups on the water.

[raptor347]

Lots of votes from people with no dog in the hunt. It is what it is.

[T.S.Davis]

Mike, easy fix on the batteries. Go down to your local sign store. Have a label printed that says what ever C you want. There's no provision in the rule set to verify a cell is actually correct. They are relying on the label.