Cap banks - the pre-emptive answer

[graill]

That's rooted, mate !
hahaha
I hope someone with a T180 can supply us with the details as embossed on their undead Surface mount capacitors .... ??

That being said.. a 47pf ceramic cap would do nicely as an alternative.. ensure the existing remnant(s) are removed before you add new.





Very pleased to spoon feed information to an appreciative audience, Steven.

0¿0

W

Great thread Wayne. A side note on the ceramic caps. I did alot of testing a year and change back, a few observations with some input from Rubicon.

Ceramic, or solid caps last only 1/3rd the life of the newer film variety for our applications, high voltage, fast discharge. Not good for ceramic type caps.
When they "burn out" they turn to powder inside or simply dead short and do not explode or bulge as the fluid/film do most times. When you lose one you will have to test your bank to find it the majority of the time.
They DO NOT have the same high performance at high discharge that film does, at lower constant voltage apps, computer mobos, power supplies, tv, stereos, they rule over film caps.
To match the performance of a film cap the engineer said the solid caps would need to be much larger verse a film cap. The next question was what is the comparison for our applications, he said there is none. The two types could have close to the same numbers but in our applications the solids will always fail first.
DO NOT mix solid and film caps, even if specs are the same (which would be rare).

I spoke with an engineer at Rubicon least year and change ago and to get a ceramic/solid cap working like the film caps out currently would be cost prohibitive, pennies on the dollar to test and manufacture for the regular types compared to 9-25 bucks per cap to meet our applications.

**Rubicon Engineer** "Why do you guys do that anyway?" Reference FE boating.

[stractor]

Surface mounted caps are available from some of the larger online sellers such as jamesco. You need to know what you want as thy are not marked. Are you sure it is a cap and not a resistor?
http://www.jameco.com/1/1/23404-1206...ount-1206.html

[maxmekker]

Surface mounted caps are available from some of the larger online sellers such as jamesco. You need to know what you want as thy are not marked. Are you sure it is a cap and not a resistor?
http://www.jameco.com/1/1/23404-1206...ount-1206.html

I don't have a clue, as to why I asked in post 44 what do they do (ore what is it)

[drwayne]

@grail.
Ceramics are rated 50 000 hrs in avionics when within spec. Diel's 200k, but then again my shed's 1976 transistor radio still works 24/7 !
Used within tolerances they're good
Chopper's youtube link amusingly shows caps outside tolerances.
'98 almost lost both legs when the ' cap array ' beneath an MRI blew itself to shi.t.
Lucky me, only lost half.

The T180 looks outside design tolerances to me, hey !

However, any high power setup will most likely exceed design expectations of the circuit. All these extra bits we hlue on the outside are done to defer imminent smoke.
ESC. Encapsulated Smoke Container

W

[drwayne]

Surface mounted caps are available from some of the larger online sellers such as jamesco. You need to know what you want as thy are not marked. Are you sure it is a cap and not a resistor?
http://www.jameco.com/1/1/23404-1206...ount-1206.html

Cap
If resistor it would be a shunt between inputs.
Or there's a track beneath the smt that feeds into pcb.
ive not taken the T180 apart to have component sheets.
W

[Basstronics]

I put together 3 cap banks over the weekend.

I used the FighterCat 5 cap bank board. I used Rubycon 1000 mincro farad caps 35V. The whole this soldered up easily using my weller adjustable iron and 1/16" tip and .030" electrical solder. Usually on PCB (Printed Circuit Boards) one has to be extra careful with the heat or you will lift a trace. These boards seem REALLY robust!

[drwayne]

They sound the biz. Are those boards assembled upside down ?
Show us a pic of the other side, plz.
W
ps .. off to work it's 0915 here.. so e patient for my next reply.
W

I put together 3 cap banks over the weekend.

I used the FighterCat 5 cap bank board. I used Rubycon 1000 mincro farad caps 35V. The whole this soldered up easily using my weller adjustable iron and 1/16" tip and .030" electrical solder. Usually on PCB (Printed Circuit Boards) one has to be extra careful with the heat or you will lift a trace. These boards seem REALLY robust!

[Basstronics]

Sorry they have black heat shrink with silicone on the ends now. I assembled them myself.

I hope I didnt assemble them wrong, but if I did I can fix... lol

[graill]

@grail.
Ceramics are rated 50 000 hrs in avionics when within spec. Diel's 200k, but then again my shed's 1976 transistor radio still works 24/7 !
Used within tolerances they're good
Chopper's youtube link amusingly shows caps outside tolerances.
'98 almost lost both legs when the ' cap array ' beneath an MRI blew itself to shi.t.
Lucky me, only lost half.

The T180 looks outside design tolerances to me, hey !

However, any high power setup will most likely exceed design expectations of the circuit. All these extra bits we hlue on the outside are done to defer imminent smoke.
ESC. Encapsulated Smoke Container

W

It is pretty funny to talk to folks and give specs and they say things "why would you ever do that" or "what are you building that would need that?!" good just to chuckle a bit at the insanity of some setups and attempts at pushing the edge of our hobbies available tech.

[drwayne]

Looks like circuit tracks beneath the caps is why I ask. Also the leads ontop adds to the thought. Burn and learn, hey !
Hope Im just confused. W
Ps I hate tiny touch screen phones, so gard to typ.

Sorry they have black heat shrink with silicone on the ends now. I assembled them myself.

I hope I didnt assemble them wrong, but if I did I can fix... lol

[drwayne]

My favorite slogan is ' burn and learn'.
Sometimes to avoid the grief it's helpful to pre-emptively offer the 'why not' scenarios.
W

It is pretty funny to talk to folks and give specs and they say things "why would you ever do that" or "what are you building that would need that?!" good just to chuckle a bit at the insanity of some setups and attempts at pushing the edge of our hobbies available tech.

[stractor]

I looked at the boards on Fightercat and they are parallel caps, the dark line is the void between + and - . The actual trace is almost 1/2 the board width, minus the void down the center.

[ray schrauwen]

Great thread Wayne. A side note on the ceramic caps. I did alot of testing a year and change back, a few observations with some input from Rubicon.

Ceramic, or solid caps last only 1/3rd the life of the newer film variety for our applications, high voltage, fast discharge. Not good for ceramic type caps.
When they "burn out" they turn to powder inside or simply dead short and do not explode or bulge as the fluid/film do most times. When you lose one you will have to test your bank to find it the majority of the time.
They DO NOT have the same high performance at high discharge that film does, at lower constant voltage apps, computer mobos, power supplies, tv, stereos, they rule over film caps.
To match the performance of a film cap the engineer said the solid caps would need to be much larger verse a film cap. The next question was what is the comparison for our applications, he said there is none. The two types could have close to the same numbers but in our applications the solids will always fail first.
DO NOT mix solid and film caps, even if specs are the same (which would be rare).

I spoke with an engineer at Rubicon least year and change ago and to get a ceramic/solid cap working like the film caps out currently would be cost prohibitive, pennies on the dollar to test and manufacture for the regular types compared to 9-25 bucks per cap to meet our applications.

**Rubicon Engineer** "Why do you guys do that anyway?" Reference FE boating.

Interesting on the film caps.

My brother is an audiophile and has tons around, the best in the world too. He knows his Caps and I don't mind using film caps of the right size and value if I knew what size and value to use??
He would not mind lending me some for testing. They are only about $35 -$50 each

Once he gets back I'll get some and snap some pics. He gets some custome made, then yer talkin' +$100 a pop.

I forgot how he always scoffed at manufacturers cheaping out on a great amp design using cheap caps or too many noisey electolytics. Then we modified the hell out of them with film caps and our ears were quite astonished.

Never thought of using them in this app. because of well, I just don't know?? Maybe because they are polarized??

[drwayne]

Interesting on the film caps.

My brother is an audiophile and has tons around, the best in the world too. He knows his Caps and I don't mind using film caps of the right size and value if I knew what size and value to use??

My favorite amp is filled with glass, copper rails and excited electrons B). None the newer encapsulated smoke variety can compete against the pure aural joy once mine gets warmed up.

Caps. the correct ones to borrow from Bro' depend upon capacitance, resistance curve / return rates, batt pack discharge survivability, esc load expectations, and how much bang for effort you want. final bank size comes into play too.
Ive penned several 1P systems shared to large twins that survive anything thrown.. for that 90 secs for oval racing... and a few bitey single systems for sprint or SAW.

One size does not fit all . despite marketing otherwise.

That being said, 5000uf is a good start for generic system's esc and pack survival.
If you seek more output from esc., cooler packs, consistent high voltage flow .. then the additional capacitance needs to be tailored to suit.

More can be achieved than simple ripple clipping by smothering with cap ballast.

W

[FRED]

Question on soldering caps, ok.--- I noticed my turnigy 120 caps were 390-35v which i think are to small. I took the 2 caps off and replaced with 470-35v but my question is , can i twist 2 cap + wires together and solder to + side of esc. Next take the same caps-2 wires and twist and solder to - side of esc . Info asap before i use esc. To hot today for boating 93+ oh yes thanks.