The Voracity tuning thread

[Rafael_Lopez]

Big thanx for the fast response. Went out today with a lot more wind and indeed: top speed reached 52 mph. Only one downside: it flipped and now there is a crack at the top of the transom at the side of rudder for half the width of the boat... I believe this shouldn't be possible and is a fabrixation issue? Do you perhaps heard of more like this?

Sorry to hear you crashed your boat and it developed a crack. Unfortunately we don't see this as a defect any more than we would call crashing an R/C car in to a curb or a tree at that speed, and expect nothing to break; wanting to blame a broken part as defective. The reality is that water, as much as we like to think that it is, is not soft when hit at that speed. You can try and reach out to your retailer and see what they say, but I doubt they will replace it. If you notice, on the box it states that max speed is obtained in favorable conditions, which means in calm waters. Through testing, I never wiped out at full speed (box stock) in calm water, The boat is actually very stable in favorable conditions and it is rare to have a crash on the water for no reason; unless you hit floating debris.

[Rafael_Lopez]

Today I ran an ABC 2314-10-50 to 72.3mph on 6S. I tried to run a 2314 a few weeks ago and that's when I hit something and hurt the rudder and prop. Today I was able to get some good passes in on fast water but the speed wasn't as high as I expected. It basically ran the same as my 2214-10-50. That's kind of a head scratcher. I do feel like I'm at the limit of diameter though. This huge prop chine walks fairly badly on smooth water and even a little wobble on wind blown water. Then at the end of several runs I hit something and hurt the second prop and rudder AGAIN. Frustrating but it's fun watching the boat run fast. Still running the Leopard 4092 and Turnigy 180a ESC.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]139840[/ATTACH]

Wow, I'm amazed at how much speed you have managed to get out of this hull. When I developed the boat, I never imagined people taking it that fast. Good job and thanks for sharing.

[Voracity]

Hi Rafael, thx for your reply, but i don't understand. I only went out with the boat twice (!) and nothing really bad happened, i didn't hit anything, there was no 'crash'. Yes, the water was more choppy than before but nothing extreme. The flip i referred to was in a corner and really smal and not even on top speed. I think every rc boat flips many times in its life, it should be able to handle some force at least. Friends of my have miss geico and Genesis and also these boats flip now and then because of wind getting under. It is no problem to the hulls at all.

With the voracity the crack is exactly in the same places als many others also had, see http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...2454780&page=3 for storys and pictures of exactly the same crack. You responded in this forum that this should not be possible... And the hull is replaced under warranty with the exact same issue, you contacted customer service Yourself and somebody else stated he got a replacement from horizon. You also stated that with future boats "the adhesive Will be spread more evenly on both sides of the hull to prevent this from happening".

So now i am confused?

[Rafael_Lopez]

By what I saw in your post it read like you crashed at speed; 52 MPH, in choppy conditions. I wont speculate on what happened in your case, but I have been looking in to this more. During a crash, the rudder can leverage itself sideways and put excessive force on the rudder mount that would cause that type of damage. Nothing a break away rudder would prevent. I broke a transom recently by hand and I had to wedge the hull between my legs and crank on the rudder pretty hard to pop the hull; at the transom. Not the type of damage cause by a small slow speed crash. Again, I'm not speculating on what happened in your case, I'm just explaining what I am finding out, looking in to this myself.

Please show me pictures of the damage on your hull and of your boat, in general.

To hopefully clear up your confusion, I have not found a lack of adhesive which would lead to this issue, but I asked that we add more to prevent any that could have an issue. When I looked in to this last we have a total of 4 boats with this issue out of multiple hundreds that we've sold so far, less than 0.7% have had this issue. The hulls that were replaced were replaced because they also had a long crack along the seam of the boat, along the side, other than just on the transom issue. Every case is assessed individually after reviewing pictures of the damage.

[Voracity]

image.jpgimage.jpg

[Voracity]

Hi rafael

Thx for your response. I appreciatie this! I have attached the pictures.

Best regards. Joost

[Voracity]

Do you recommend firming the transom of the boat with carbon/epoxy to prevent this happening?

[oscarel]

Hi Rafael, thx for your reply, but i don't understand. I only went out with the boat twice (!) and nothing really bad happened, i didn't hit anything, there was no 'crash'. Yes, the water was more choppy than before but nothing extreme. The flip i referred to was in a corner and really smal and not even on top speed. I think every rc boat flips many times in its life, it should be able to handle some force at least. Friends of my have miss geico and Genesis and also these boats flip now and then because of wind getting under. It is no problem to the hulls at all.

With the voracity the crack is exactly in the same places als many others also had, see http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...2454780&page=3 for storys and pictures of exactly the same crack. You responded in this forum that this should not be possible... And the hull is replaced under warranty with the exact same issue, you contacted customer service Yourself and somebody else stated he got a replacement from horizon. You also stated that with future boats "the adhesive Will be spread more evenly on both sides of the hull to prevent this from happening".

So now i am confused?

I've had boats that have done this and even though it seems like an innocent crash the water some times isn't as forgiving as you'd expect.

[Rafael_Lopez]

Exactly what I experienced on my end. It seems that the transom damage is due to excessive force on the rudder bracket. You see how the transom is now pulled away from the top half of the hull? Almost as if pulled away from the transom. The rudder stand off acts like a lever, it doesn't need that much force to break the transom if it hits the water at the right angle. Not something I could have replicated during development, unfortunately, I never experienced anything like this.


Because you are in NL, you have to contact your dealer and they may contact Horizon Hobby DE and request this be looked at. It is up to them if they feel they want to replace it. Now that I've looked in to this on my end, I don't see it as being a "defect" or their being a lack of resin/glue, which is causing this specific issue. Its just the way the boat hits the water; it's a pretty heavy boat with batteries in it.


Again, I just want to be clear, I'm not saying they wont replace it.

As far as reinforcing, it's really up to you. There is one guy on here that has shown me videos and he runs on a very, very, choppy river and in his case I would say reinforce it. For you, it depends on where you run. I specified the boats to be laid up thicker than we have ever made boats before so that people don't have the need to reinforce them, like most other brand boats that I've owned prior to working here, but keep in mind that adding too much weight will hinder performance.

[badlaa]

Hi, I bought last month in a local retailer here in Italy the Proboat Voracity and also two suggested batteries Dynamite 50C 5000 3S with EC5 connectors. But I am not satisfied at all with the max speed, which on my voracity, is far away from 50mph...in totally flat water the max speed is 43mph...and I have an accurate garmin GPS on board.
The Dynamite batteries are all back in the right CG. position for flat water.
My blackjack 29 V3 is faster reaching 45mph stock with the dynamite lipos.
What can I do with my boat? I have bought it since you write it is 50mph STOCK in flat water and with suggested batteries but mine is 7mph slower.
What can I do???

Thank you

Marco

[Crash]

Hi, I bought last month in a local retailer here in Italy the Proboat Voracity and also two suggested batteries Dynamite 50C 5000 3S with EC5 connectors. But I am not satisfied at all with the max speed, which on my voracity, is far away from 50mph...in totally flat water the max speed is 43mph...and I have an accurate garmin GPS on board.
The Dynamite batteries are all back in the right CG. position for flat water.
My blackjack 29 V3 is faster reaching 45mph stock with the dynamite lipos.
What can I do with my boat? I have bought it since you write it is 50mph STOCK in flat water and with suggested batteries but mine is 7mph slower.
What can I do???

Thank you

Marco

Mine ran 43 mph out the box as well.

[arrover]

My boat ran 48.7 stock. It might have run faster stock but I started playing with different props right away. Water conditions can change your speed by 2-3mph pretty easily. Totally flat water will be slower than water with a rippled surface (tiny waves, not big ones). How are your trim tabs adjusted? If you put a straight edge on the hull, the tip of the trim tabs should just barely touch it. You should also check your strut level. It sounds like maybe yours is to low causing the boat to run wet. That causes more drag and slower speeds. Adjust the strut up a little and retest. Small changes in strut height can make big changes in the handling. If you adjust it up to far, the boat will become unstable and more susceptible to wrecking.

[badlaa]

My boat ran 48.7 stock. It might have run faster stock but I started playing with different props right away. Water conditions can change your speed by 2-3mph pretty easily. Totally flat water will be slower than water with a rippled surface (tiny waves, not big ones). How are your trim tabs adjusted? If you put a straight edge on the hull, the tip of the trim tabs should just barely touch it. You should also check your strut level. It sounds like maybe yours is to low causing the boat to run wet. That causes more drag and slower speeds. Adjust the strut up a little and retest. Small changes in strut height can make big changes in the handling. If you adjust it up to far, the boat will become unstable and more susceptible to wrecking.

I will post a photo as soon as I can so you can see how the strut and the trim tabs are by stock...thank you for your reply :-)

[badlaa]

Here a few photos of my batteries position, strut and trim tabs.
Is there something wrong?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kqpj2haby2cz0zl/AABqi-Aa3GYVf78ih6wewTCLa?dl=0

Thank you

Marco

[Rafael_Lopez]

One thing that also comes in to play is what we call "heavy water", especially for a V or mono that is cutting through the water; not so much for a cat or a hydro. What this means is that some water is heavier in mineral and plant content which causes the boat to be slower as it requires more power to cut through the water. In our case here in California, the drought has cause the water to thicken up. I can run in the lake near our office and be 2-3 mph slower than at another body of water where the Water District filters the water.

Another thing is that most GPS units take about 7 seconds to get max MPH. I have verified this with my Garmin eTrex, Garmin Fore Runner and our Dynamite GPS, while in my car. They all take an average of 7 seconds to register a steady speed; max speed. When taking reading with a GPS unit make sure you have enough space and get as long of a run as you can to allow the GPS to top out and register the max speed.

I'll post the video again of me doing 52 with a production boat. This is completely raw, unedited video of one of my speed runs where I get 52 mph. This is the lake where they filter the water. Notice how clear the water is.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vIBa1imVZE