Mah resitrictions

[Doby]

John
If they had two 2S - 6,000mAmp packs, there is NO problem running them in series, you end up with a 4S1P - 6,000mAmp pack.
This is still under the MAX limit of 10,000mAmp's on board.

If you had two 4S- 6,000mAmp packs, and connect them parallel, you end up with a 4S2P - 12,000mAmp pack - NO -over the MAX -10,000mAMP on board.


Larry

Thanks Larry, but I've been doing math for a few years now and already had that figured out...

I'm just saying that if some newby, like a Smock or Don H are entering their first race with their P Mono and want to join in on the craziness with their 2, 4S 6000mah packs to run in parallel, could they still be allowed to run if the race waiver allows a bit extra capacity? I'd hate to think some folks would be turned away for a few extra mah. Unless of course its for a formal record of some sort.

[TRUCKPULL]

Doug

Terry, Fred & the MI gang run one of, if not the best and fairest races in North America.

Larry

[Doug Smock]

Oh yeah I "get it" Terry. Not to catch someone cheating, it's to prove they're not. I appreciate you being on the front end of it!

[T.S.Davis]

I know Doug. I knew what you were running. I didn't want to hear any BS later about Smock this or Smock that. I'm sure you already know this but I wasn't trying to catch a single person cheating. I was preventing others from making accusations later. It wouldn't have come from anyone at our race. It would have come from people NOT at our race. The usual sources.

I checked Einstein and PAGS about 86 times. Fireball got a bunch of visits too. I tried to accost everyone at some point. Probably skipped the kids boats.

[Doug Smock]

"I don't think anyone escaped scrutiny at the Cup last summer".

I know Don and I were checked frequently. We were starting to get a complex. lol I think the T mono was checked before every heat.

Edit: It was as it should be, I'm not complaining!

[TRUCKPULL]

The only reason I brought up the CD/Flyer thing was if someone who had some 6000 packs and they wanted to run in 2P
they could (like P-Mono/Cat) without having to buy new packs....

John
If they had two 2S - 6,000mAmp packs, there is NO problem running them in series, you end up with a 4S1P - 6,000mAmp pack.
This is still under the MAX limit of 10,000mAmp's on board.

If you had two 4S- 6,000mAmp packs, and connect them parallel, you end up with a 4S2P - 12,000mAmp pack - NO -over the MAX -10,000mAMP on board.

If you want to go this way- I could sell a my Offshore Motors, and 5,000mAmp batteries and buy all 6,600mAmp packs, then I could just run my oval setups in Offshore.
This way also my oval setups will run faster seeing that the output voltage under load would be higher with the higher capacity packs.

Larry

[T.S.Davis]

Supposed to be. I don't think the SAW guys typically carry the max.

[Brushless55]

Every record run is tech'd for compliance with the rules.......accept the mah restrictions because to do so is a nightmare. I've signed some record applications. I've not checked the mah. Only voltage. I doubt that the SAW guys are doing a complete discharge and recharge.

are the 2 lap and SAW runs held to the 10,000mah limit in P and Q classes ?
or are they allowed to run more ?
thanks

[jaike5]

Didn't the mah limit restrict the size of prop you could spin in off shore and the roundy round? now more mah means bigger wheel, go faster and so on. next will it be length and weigh restrictions changed to hold more batteries . now safety really becomes an issue. instead of an 18lb T- boat doing 65mph in the roundy round, now you may have 30lb boat doing 75plus mph.... and the wakes would be massive with 4-6 T-boats, yikes !! just my .02, race on

Cheers, Jay.

[Doby]

I think I'm going to re-label all my packs as 4S Flux Capacitors.

[Doby]

The only reason I brought up the CD/Flyer thing was if someone who had some 6000 packs and they wanted to run in 2P
they could (like P-Mono/Cat) without having to buy new packs....

[T.S.Davis]

Yeah that's interesting Larry. I've been told this for years but it's not really true. You have to stick to the safety rules. The book says that failure to comply with the safety rules may result in a loss of coverage. Paraphrasing. No where does the book say "You must comply with every letter of this document or you will not be insured". I've been told repeatedly "Well, they expect us to follow our own rules". Expect? Good luck with that in court. If it's not on paper it didn't happen. Ever see cats and monos sprint together? Guess were uninsured at that point. Nonsense.

Cell counts and battery specs aren't in the safety rules. If the insurance company wanted to jam that "you weren't following the rules" thing down our throats then no event that I'm aware of since lipo was introduced would have been covered because no event that I'm aware of has ever truly tech'd the mah's. You could read the label but who knows what's under the label if you don't do a full discharge and then a subsequent recharge. Then do you discharge down to 0% before a refill to absolutely sure? If we were getting all lawyer'y, "Where's the documentation proving that you checked it?"

Checking them with absolute certainty should only take an entire day for tech for each day of racing. The only thing I check is voltage. I don't think anyone escaped scrutiny at the Cup last summer. If I missed someone I apologize. I'll be sure to check all of your crap this year. We've relied entirely on good faith since introduction of Lipo.

The whole restriction thing was an attempt to appease those that were convinced Lipo would spell the end of racing. Same response that brushless motors received. "RACING IS RUINED! WE'RE JUST RACING WALLETS NOW! THAT'S IT! I'M OUT!"

Still not sure how to address the twins thing. Larry's 6s3p twin Q cat scenario is pretty realistic and would likely come in under weight. Not sure it would be drive able but it is possible. We're planning to test a 20k single Q cat for Atlanta. See if that works. Weight is under easy.

John, I'm not sure it matters what the CD states on the flier. If a guy shows up with cells that don't have labels at all........ how does the CD know anything more than the voltage? Hmmmmm, those look like 5600 2p to me. The sketchy part would be the legitimacy of the results. For instance, one could argue that a national championship awarded to a racer whose cells were not dumped and recharged to verify compliance with the MAH restrictions is not legit. Ridiculous but you could make the argument.

Every record run is tech'd for compliance with the rules.......accept the mah restrictions because to do so is a nightmare. I've signed some record applications. I've not checked the mah. Only voltage. I doubt that the SAW guys are doing a complete discharge and recharge.

[Doby]

John

I think the problem would be the INSURANCE
We are only covered when we stick to the rules.

Larry

Well that just opens a whole new can of worms....

[TRUCKPULL]

Can the CD make an exemption for this on race days? Can clubs make the exemption on the race flyers?

John

I think the problem would be the INSURANCE
We are only covered when we stick to the rules.

Larry

[TRUCKPULL]

c. In multiple speed control/motor installations the total pack voltage must be used as the
supply input to each speed control.

This is another area where the two orgs differ.

Your Q Cat with 6s per side is considered a 12s setup and is illegal in the IMPBA.
Wire 6s2p to both controls and your good to go. If you can squeeze 20k in there go for it.

The wiring is no problem, My "P" Cat is wired so that each ESC sees 4S2P 10,000 mAmps total
To be able to run 4 1/2 min, My average AMP draw can not be more then 65 Amps per motor.

A big "Q" twin - 6S3P - 6,600mAmp packs = Oval racing at 80MPH

Larry