Turbine scales

[Todd Fleury]

I know that there are only a few here in the states, but I am trying to get something going in NAMBA and IMPBA so they can at least set a record. These boats fall under every aspect in both NAMBA and IMPBA, for length, weight and propeller driven. I also know that the jetcat engines are under the CC limit.

[T.S.Davis]

Todd,

I know we've had this conversation before. There are no safety rules prohibiting them. Not in the NAMBA book at least. The only issue rule wise is that there are no turbine classes. The likely hood of there ever being an actual class is slim. TOOoooooo much dough.

The book says that if you don't follow the safety rules you will lose insurance coverage. It doesn't say "follow the class rules" despite the belief of some that it does.

Disregard of these safety regulations will cause the loss of insurance eligibility for the
member should an accident occur. Disregard of these safety regulations can also
result in the member being ejected from an event by the contest officials, or can cause
the member to lose use of a particular racing site.

Those that try to keep you from running them at all can't point to a rule. They have an agenda for what ever reason. They want to say it's a "safety" issue but there is no reference to a section in the book that I've seen to back them up.

The CC limit isn't a "safety" rule. Maximum voltage isn't in the safety rules either and that TOTALLY should be. There are no classes for them but on paper you can run a 20s setup without insurance issues. You're stupid but you're insured.

Although, who knows. There are things that the BOD voted on recently that I've never actually seen on paper. We'll see at least one brand new safety rule in the next printing in January. Maybe there's something new on turbine power too.

Interesting to is that there are no provisions for any executive member to revoke insurance coverage. A CD can eject a racer and not allow him to use a site but there's no allowance for cancellation from say 1200+ miles away. Just say'n.........

[Todd Fleury]

From someone within NAMBA..........

Todd,
It has come to my attention that you may be running a boat with a turbine engine. It sounds like a blast. However, I must inform you that NAMBA Insurance does not cover you in case of an accident, nor will the lake/land owner be covered. These engines types have not been approved by NAMBA nor have they been included within our insurance coverage.

As these engines types get more popular we may need to look into coverage.

[T.S.Davis]

Yeah I know.................apparently if you're high enough in the organization you can decide what the rules are and enforce them as you see fit. haha There was a call to our district too.

There is nothing in writing that was published and distributed to the membership that corresponds to that email.

If you had to go to court the only way the organization/underwriter can forfeit coverage is if you violated the safety rules. Per our rule book that is distributed to the membership. As NO motors are specified in those safety rules I can't see how it's enforceable. I say that but the only way it would ever come up is if there was some catastrophe, the insurance denied a claim, and lawyers had to sort it out.

I've not read the IMPBA rules for comparison but it's currently on my "to-do" list. Not regarding this. Just on general principle.

[Doug Smock]

Todd,
We are having a BOD meeting next month. I'll see if we can get something on the agenda for you as promised.
It would be cool to see these run for records.

[photohoward1]

You are covered under most home owner policies though. Stupid is as stupid does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jaike5]

I would think turbine would fall under the open class ...... or is it a closed open class. Is there a rule some where in the fine print you have to read in a mirror with a jewelers loupe.

Cheers, Jay.

[Doug Smock]

In order to run in an open class there has to be a class established (rules) within the organization for the boat.
Otherwise the open classes would be a free for all.

[keithbradley]

Todd,
We are having a BOD meeting next month. I'll see if we can get something on the agenda for you as promised.
It would be cool to see these run for records.

Heck yes.
Turbines have been around for a long time. In terms of safety I don't know how anyone can say they have a greater potential to cause injury/property damage than an I/C or electric boat.
It's definitely the easiest move to just say "NO", but I'm glad Doug isn't just doing what's easy here. Thanks to the guys who go out of their way to do what's right, not just what's easy (and for free at that).

By the way, how many entries are needed for a "class"? Is it just a matter or voting it in and writing it into the rules or do there need to be a certain number of boats participating?

[Doug Smock]

This is going to be a tough sell Keith, and I've been honest with Todd about that.
There does need to be a number? of boats running, and real membership interest in the class typically. But, this isn't a typical class.

I know there aren't many of them in the US. A few reasons for that I'm sure.

But, they are model boats, they are very cool, there is some interest.
I think we should to talk about it. See if they can be insured. Try to get a exhibition or two approved at our record trials. ( It's a start) I think it would be sweet to have these running at our record trials, for records. How will we know if we don't ask. I ain't skeered. lol

I'd love to have one but then I'd need a new wife, house, etc.

[Todd Fleury]

This is all I wanted, a discussion regarding these boats. I just am tired of hearing no.

[T.S.Davis]

By the way, how many entries are needed for a "class"? Is it just a matter or voting it in and writing it into the rules or do there need to be a certain number of boats participating?

It could be proposed by a district (for NAMBA). Then a district vote. If passed at the district level it would go to national for a vote. Typically a DD wont go out on that limb without seeing a season of boats to prove the concept and the demand. 3 boats makes a class but if you're seeing 3 boats for a season of racing that doesn't really indicate demand. By all means, if you're having fun run them but don't get hung up on there being an official class for them. In the past we've run a class for at least a year before proposing anything for voting. If numbers are only so-so it's time to reach out to other districts to see if anyone else is running your concept. Gauging the demand isn't an exact science. This is the step that DD's have been known to skip in the past too. Anybody seen ECO at a NAMBA event lately? Nobody was running it when it was proposed either. There might not be three turbine scales in the US total so the likelihood of it ever getting proven and/or proposed to NAMBA is extremely slim.

Unfortunately or fortunately, both organizations goal is to get people to the pond to race boats. It isn't necessarily to accommodate the whim of every model boater. No offense intended to Todd. That turbine is awesome. It's the old "there's too many classes!" argument. Been around as long as I've been racing. Theory being.............get guys focused on fewer classes = heats.

It may well be that both NAMBA and IMPBA insurance policies specifically include or exclude certain motor types. I don't really know. I'm told that the NAMBA policy is that specific. However, what is or is NOT allowed needs to be in the rule book that you send to your members.

[SJFE]

Strikes me as kind of a recurring theme when I see safety given as a reason to not allow something new into racing. I remember reading threads just like this about 6 or 7 years ago when lipo batteries came widely available for use in boats. There was talk of fires, explosions and the end of the world as we know it cost wise. Seems it all worked out. just like this will I'm sure.

[RaceMechaniX]

Todd,

I highly suggest you pick up an AMA membership to cover you in case something does happen. I believe this covers you to some extent. I have had similar people ask about increasing the cell limits to 14S or running 125cc engines. It all comes down to insurance coverage and the premiums we pay as organizations.

Tyler

[T.S.Davis]

Strikes me as kind of a recurring theme when I see safety given as a reason to not allow something new into racing. I remember reading threads just like this about 6 or 7 years ago when lipo batteries came widely available for use in boats. There was talk of fires, explosions and the end of the world as we know it cost wise. Seems it all worked out. just like this will I'm sure.

Seems like yesterday to me. There were some that believed that we would not be insured if we didn't run Nimh. They refused to read the rule book. There were guys that left the hobby over LiPo.