It's the water........and a lot more

[Dr. Jet]

Don't you think that wind and waves do have much more effect on the speed, rather than "thick" or "thin" water ???

Perhaps. But then again, I might be just looking to create a new market for my new invention, the Blast-O-5000 WT&SA (patent pending).

[Gerwin Brommer]

The two lakes you mentioned : what about the waves at the lakes ???

On both lakes the same waves ?? Same hight ? same lenght ??

Let's say : both lakes : moving from A to B (let's say 30 ft distance)
how many waves where there in these 30 ft ? same amount ?
lake 1 : how many times was the boat airborne
lake 2 : how many times was the boat airborne

lake 1 : how many times did it land in a wave, hull touching first, instead of the prop

same question for lake 2

[andym]

This is great guy's, there are so many variables when it comes to running fast that I think the density or viscosity of a particular lake is a very minor part. We all know that on a lake that is very calm we can loosen our boats up some for more speed and a choppy lake the opposite because the chop will air the hull out for us. I can see that all things being equal in conditions that it could have some affect and I would like to see the results but getting the other variable's equal to gauge the effect of water quality sounds next to impossible. Good luck

[Dr. Jet]

The two lakes you mentioned : what about the waves at the lakes ???

On both lakes the same waves ?? Same hight ? same lenght ??

Let's say : both lakes : moving from A to B (let's say 30 ft distance)
how many waves where there in these 30 ft ? same amount ?
lake 1 : how many times was the boat airborne
lake 2 : how many times was the boat airborne

lake 1 : how many times did it land in a wave, hull touching first, instead of the prop

same question for lake 2

Ahhh..... For the waves, I'll bring my portable weather station to record wind velocity, direction, temperature and barometric pressure. I'll need video cameras to record wave contacts. Maybe side-scanning radar (SSR) or forwward looking infra-red (FLIR) cameras are needed as well.

Jeeze, I'll need a tractor-trailer to bring all my testing equipment to the pond!

[Gerwin Brommer]

There is a simple solution for all your problems :

The larger the boat, and the more power on board, the less problems you have with external factors

That's why I bought a CT03 , whawhawhawha.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Water

Aw man, this is one of my favorite variables..

After travelling the FE race circuit the past few years, water "fastness" was the first thing I noticed..

Generally, California water is some of the slowest water in the country next to Washington

This can pose as a disadvantage, or advantage depending on how its utilized
Don't get me wrong, Cali water is plenty fast as well as Washington, it just takes a different prop/trim setting to get you there..

Nitice guys who come from the Pac NW are faster than piss (as well as us Cali boys) More challenging water

At the same time, the southern gentlemen are wicked fast as well. (hence the great water)

Any time you dial a boat for a competition over 1,000 miles away, these settings are just base points. You'll have to test at that new water no matter how flat or choppy.

Georgia water particularly at Blue Lake Valdosta is incredibly fast.. Blue lake has a mysterious fog over it every morning no matter WHAT the weather is, or time of year. I attribute its fast condition to Air humidity/climate, and the high water table of the deep south as well as pristine land.

By far, the fastest water I've run on in any compettitive situation is the water in NEW JERSEY!!! I can't BEGIN to describe that water. CRISP, Pristine, the Lake that Doug Twaits, and Eddie Hansen run in is SO clean you can see the bottom of the lake in some of its shallower spots.

This water allows the boat to run incredibly free, yet grabs in corners like the boat's got fingers!! When I say crisp, I mean the spray comin' off the prop, and thet hydraulic "whine" chirping off it..

Generally speaking, if you take a boat from Cali to the East coas or the south, it'll fly right off the bat, probably too loose, but if you tune the boat back there, and bring it home to cali, you'll look like a LIAR when you show your buddies how fast you were goin' down south..

My home pond (San Francisco) is something else.. Less than 1/2 mile from the pacific ocean, I believe the water to be somewhat "brackish" very sticky water, Quite choppy at times in spots, but its challenge has been enough to prepare me for MOST circumstances I've encountered..

I could go on forever about water here, water there, but I'll leave you gents with this..

Who's ever run on moving water like a river, and had the boat fly and perform out of this world? like go twice as fast?

I experienced it with a Kyosho Viper rtr boat sporting a NORCA 36deg 27 turn stock motor, and a 1500 scrc nicad 7-cell pack. The sucker was hitting like 45, (and I have witnesses) This is a boat that topped out at 23mph on a good day
I know it sounds like a fish story, but I'd love to hear from someone else who's experienced this freak occurance

[Doug Smock]

Ahhh..... For the waves, I'll bring my portable weather station to record wind velocity, direction, temperature and barometric pressure. I'll need video cameras to record wave contacts. Maybe side-scanning radar (SSR) or forwward looking infra-red (FLIR) cameras are needed as well.

Jeeze, I'll need a tractor-trailer to bring all my testing equipment to the pond!

Dr Jet,
We will be eagerly waiting for the results of your testing. Please let me know when you wil be in the Atl. area, as I would like opportunity to watch you gather the information.
Maybe we can run a few boats while you're in town.

Thank you sir!!,
Doug

[AndyKunz]

It's not just salt vs. fresh water. I have raced on water that I would be willing to drink, and I have raced on water that literally caused corrosion on my hardware by the time I pulled the boat back in. The impurities affect more than the pH.

Andy

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Tests

Aw man, this is one of my favorite variables..

After travelling the FE race circuit the past few years, water "fastness" was the first thing I noticed..

Generally, California water is some of the slowest water in the country next to Washington

This can pose as a disadvantage, or advantage depending on how its utilized
Don't get me wrong, Cali water is plenty fast as well as Washington, it just takes a different prop/trim setting to get you there..

Nitice guys who come from the Pac NW are faster than piss (as well as us Cali boys) More challenging water

At the same time, the southern gentlemen are wicked fast as well. (hence the great water)

Any time you dial a boat for a competition over 1,000 miles away, these settings are just base points. You'll have to test at that new water no matter how flat or choppy.

Georgia water particularly at Blue Lake Valdosta is incredibly fast.. Blue lake has a mysterious fog over it every morning no matter WHAT the weather is, or time of year. I attribute its fast condition to Air humidity/climate, and the high water table of the deep south as well as pristine land.

By far, the fastest water I've run on in any compettitive situation is the water in NEW JERSEY!!! I can't BEGIN to describe that water. CRISP, Pristine, the Lake that Doug Twaits, and Eddie Hansen run in is SO clean you can see the bottom of the lake in some of its shallower spots.

This water allows the boat to run incredibly free, yet grabs in corners like the boat's got fingers!! When I say crisp, I mean the spray comin' off the prop, and thet hydraulic "whine" chirping off it..

Generally speaking, if you take a boat from Cali to the East coas or the south, it'll fly right off the bat, probably too loose, but if you tune the boat back there, and bring it home to cali, you'll look like a LIAR when you show your buddies how fast you were goin' down south..

My home pond (San Francisco) is something else.. Less than 1/2 mile from the pacific ocean, I believe the water to be somewhat "brackish" very sticky water, Quite choppy at times in spots, but its challenge has been enough to prepare me for MOST circumstances I've encountered..

I could go on forever about water here, water there, but I'll leave you gents with this..

Who's ever run on moving water like a river, and had the boat fly and perform out of this world? like go twice as fast?

I experienced it with a Kyosho Viper rtr boat sporting a NORCA 36deg 27 turn stock motor, and a 1500 scrc nicad 7-cell pack. The sucker was hitting like 45, (and I have witnesses) This is a boat that topped out at 23mph on a good day
I know it sounds like a fish story, but I'd love to hear from someone else who's experienced this freak occurance

In my opinion, any series of tests will leave you with only a base point as well. Too many variables involved. Running the test on flat water in both places will avoid the need to check wave height. most ponds will leave you at some point with near dead wind, so no need to monitor that..

I'd say density and temp are the 2 main factors, but after racing on so many different waters so far away from each other in such a short time has shown me that there's WAY more to it than that if you want to know a lake..

Water content I believe to play a HUGE role in it, that's why salt water runs different than fresh, and there's WAY more to wtaer content in different regions than just salt or not and unless a guy is ready to perform that sort of analysis pondside, I'd say stick the boat in the water, clamp the trigger, see what you get, and tune accordingly..

[BILL OXIDEAN]

It's not just salt vs. fresh water. I have raced on water that I would be willing to drink, and I have raced on water that literally caused corrosion on my hardware by the time I pulled the boat back in. The impurities affect more than the pH.

Andy

My point exactly, and Andy races at that pond in Jersey I spoke of that's REALLY pristine..

There's SO many variables in the water content, that a guy would have to anylize that water SO well, to figure out what's what..

[Dr. Jet]

Bill,

That's my point. Are there variables that can be quantified and applied to your setup BEFORE you throw it in the water and peg the throttle?

Mind you, I'm only running the small stuff now, and really don't have plans to travel to different ponds to compete. This was more of a rhetorical and theoretical discussion. You did confirm my assertion that there are "fast" bodies of water and "slow" bodies. Is there something that can be done to measure one or more variables to pre-determine if your water is fast or slow?

I like the idea of running downstream in a fast-moving river. How about "White-Water FE"? I seem to recall a video of a jet boat on small rapids.

[Gerwin Brommer]

What if all lakes are inspected ?
Give them all a "handicap" like in Golf ?
Pick a "neutral" lake, which becomes the "Standard Value" ?
So you can calculate, incl each lake's handicap, and have a result that is
"valid" for the other lakes ??

[Dr. Jet]

What if all lakes are inspected ?
Give them all a "handicap" like in Golf ?
Pick a "neutral" lake, which becomes the "Standard Value" ?
So you can calculate, incl each lake's handicap, and have a result that is
"valid" for the other lakes ??

As strange as it seems, there is a similar handicapping system for gliders, A Standard Cirrus is given a value of 1.00 and other ships get a higher, or lower value depending on performance. That way a 1-26 driver (LD = 23:1) can compete with a Nimbus 4 pilot (LD = 60:1).

For our purposes, and as you suggested above, what measurement would be used to establish a "neutral" value? Density? pH? TDS (total dissolved solids)? Turbidity? Viscosity? Particles in colloidal suspension? All of the above? All those variables have been mentioned in this discussion. I think it would be fun/informative/interesting to do some testing to see if there was such a measurable variable that could be used in predicting/evaluating/comparing performance.

[Gerwin Brommer]

Not to forget the wind.
Windspeed AND direction of the wind, compared to the position of the "racetrack"

[Dr. Jet]

Not to forget the wind.
Windspeed AND direction of the wind, compared to the position of the "racetrack"

Actually, there seems to be an abundance of wind around here lately.