Plettenberg motors and compatible ESC's?

[eXoNerated]

Yeah TS his motor kills a 370. Its quite an upgrade. Dont relly get why the 2 poloes wre giving you trouble with mgm. Id like to hear more about that.

Regards
Hubert

[jingalls007]

I use a flier on a couple and they work great. The old Schulze work great too.


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Was that with the Plett 370BM?

[eXoNerated]

can u post photos of the teras because ive had interest in this machine but I doubt it make it into scale like 370s


Regards
Hubert

[jingalls007]

can u post photos of the teras because ive had interest in this machine but I doubt it make it into scale like 370s


Regards
Hubert

Mine won?t be here until the end of July. You can find a pic on pletts site. This motor would be far too big for an 1/8th scale at 63mm.. It?s nearly twice the mass of a 370.

As far as I know there isn?t an electric 1/6 scale class. This boat is purely for fun and enjoyment.

[eXoNerated]

Yeah it is but I don't know if they allow that beast! I think the boys in the NW heavy on 6th scales i think they run 50 series scorpions I'm not sure. But In Germany you know what they run in a 6th. Lehner LOL! But that thing u got there Not many have. It is DEFINITELY QUALITY! I wanna see this thing run. Woo.... It's gone be purely fun and enjoyment alright. Ya knees gone be shaking I have a feeling then playa. I don't have to see it run to know that Tetras ain't gone play witcha..... OKAY think its game.......

Regards,
Hubert

[jingalls007]

I don't know much about Plettenberg motors, only what I've ready here on the forums. I know they're handmade with quality components, but what else makes them such good motors?

[eXoNerated]

Uwe Plettenburg is a very intelligent man and a highly accomplished boater in F1E-1kg. From what history on the site says he and Gerhard started to develop their first electric motor in 1979 and by 81 he was the world champion with his motors and that lays the foundation for what you have today. He has put together well thought out machines with boats first in mind clearly. The company just won top 100 innovators in 2019. They list JETI, YGE, and Kontronics in the manual but thats just what they've run. The seal should be good to go. The motors come with the internal cooling fan and water jacket that they have tested to know it works as intended. The core is laminated so it suffers less loss. Better efficiency with less heat with less heat you get more throughput power and they are slated to upward of 90%. Its a big motor with alot of torque and potential for sure. If it is any consolation the YGE and KONTRONIC have a sine hybrid commutation. They start from a standstill as sinus drives but at about 90 throttle they open to zero trap drives true BLDC like the Seal. There's supposed to be some slight advantage on the low end with the sinus algorithm but on the top if its fast enough they actually will start to degrade in performance especially if the processor cant keep up with the pole count. The other thing... a true bldc machine and drive will generate more torque than a sinus motor and drive. I think you have created an ideal situation for a boat with your drive selection. I think you made a good choice.
Regards
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

The quality is in the german hands as hand wound motors can be copper filled to a premium not usually matched by machine wound motors. From most pictures they also use multistranding so from a copper loss standpoint they also dont suffer and significant skin effect losses. Even with mono wire if the wire stays under 1mm you wont have much issue with skin effect losses. If you wind with large mono wire like 13 ga for instance and your commutation frequency is high you will suffer from skin effect losses. That why if I wind with big mono wire I have determined a Kv battery combination that keeps me out of the danger zones frequency wise. The lower Kv stuff anything high gets multi stranding or mono less than or equal to 1mm. High speed outrunners many time run above 1 kilo where alot of iron loss take place there without laminated rotors special winds magnets etc. The handwound align on the left attachment is def not underfilled. My hand winding increased the copper content a full 2 ounces for an increase of 35% more copper in the slot. Thats significant and the calculator shows the difference based on the new motor constants. It is truly a boat motor now with plenty of torque and and a way to deliver the amperage to make it happen The wind was also changed from a dual Layer to single layer wind. It generates more torque per amp, can dissipate more heat and is more power dense. If it was terminated delta vs. wye it would only make in more power dense and lower further its dc resistance. Handwinding the motors the way that they do gives you similar benefits in their motors.

Regards
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

Heres what 2 ounces of increase look like. Do you see alot of space for more wire? Maybe 1 more turn then the increase is greater than 50% from factory but the Kv was right here so I terminated the motor at that. My winds are hardly underfilled plus you dont always have to have maximum fill for great efficiency the room to breathe can also help at times. There are multitudes of high efficiency motors in the out there with fill levels in the 30% range with efficiencies greater than 93% That happens all day in the real world.Nevertheless That's a fair amount of copper in the slot here. This motor will do its Job!

[eXoNerated]

But this is something the German speed pilots goto world champion and scorpions top hand winder stares at. A 5020 HK scorpion serially connected wye to delta wind on one motor. This attenuates the two pole harmonic in a motor with 5 pole pairs. That reduces pm losses tremendously focusing on only the working harmonic which is the 5th. They do not have this YET though team xerox with a full team works overtime I'm sure. This was learned in cooperation with the PhD's of IEEE, ABB, and the Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science at North Carolina State university (D.E.E.C.S.). They said it was too complicated but I did it!!! Basically the wye motor is open ended coils that connect to the delta so I look at the wye part a essentially dc choke for the delta motor. The reason for the turn ratio between the two is to match the Kv as much as possible between the two interrelated machines. They banned the photos to save face then followed it to the USA and told everybody this is the new tech they concur!!!!!! I've named it everything from w to d to deecs wind to the hubertus (ABB) wind. I like that name alot The Neu motors I've done are even better but I wont show them these complete because they have a "German Only " site where we cannot go and see what they are doing. That can go both ways..... He said intially the Neu outrunners average then i show factory motors capa ofble over 6 grams per watt with saw blade marcel @ 242 miles per hour pitch speed at 8o amps they start to wind the motors in Germany and report back happy customer even though his fill was lees than mine. He used slot liners and all I use nothing clean stator no nicks.

Regards
Hubert

Ps I hope you dont feel hijacked I just wanted to share this since we are talking about motors. Hope you do not mind.

[eXoNerated]

Here's the NEU with the delta motor wound. If i would have completed the wye motor with just this alternating pattern in coils between the two motorsI was already above OEM fill and with a newer winding tech than factory. Remember they already did 6 grams of thrust per watt .Steve donated me one to work with. The problem is these wont really be good for boats because the KV is low. These are built for fast direct drive planes with a max rpm of 12,000. This one was dedicated to Kobe Bryant thats why its called 24 which a 15 turn delta and 9 turn wye serially connected. In The name of Kobe and his performance I knew he'd rather I push it to the max so I decided on more coils for the better fill on top of the better wind. Now thats Kobes style. The black mamba. The neat orthocylic lay ensures more commonality in inductance and resistance. It also maximizes the space for maximum fill potential. Each phase set of coils are paralleled for the lowest dc resistance an high granularity

TTYL
Hubert,

[T.S.Davis]

Yeah TS his motor kills a 370. Its quite an upgrade. Dont relly get why the 2 poloes wre giving you trouble with mgm. Id like to hear more about that.

Regards
Hubert

I never ran it with a 2 pole. 4 poles or more. The MGM wont run them in my experience. I think I have 5 of them in my scrap box. Couple were given to me by a guy that gave up on them too.

That 370 was a staple scale motor. 8 pole beast. The Terra I believe is 6 pole. Kinda anxious to hear how that runs too. The Plett has a totally different sound to it as it spools up.

[eXoNerated]

I misunderstood your post. "You never had much luck PAST 2 poles." Got ya ! Thought it read "I never had any luck with 2 poles." My bad. I think the tetras is 4 pole. The 4P12N topology develop more torque per amp than a 2p12N the Kw's are 1 and .96 respectively. This is why the Neu seem to have more torque than a Lehner. It also has a smaller air gap as its wires are retained by the hammer heads on the stator. The Lehner has no slots no cogging and a larger gap. with only high temp epoxy retaining the coils.The 2 pole is always a nice machine because it's working harmonic is the two pole harmonic which the rotor is. The lehner was def designed wit higher rpms in mind. Not having cogging torque to fight through also reduces its torque ripple.

I have a inrunner i plan to build with helical coils. As a generator its been found to be more efficient that the typical distributed wind in an inrunner. Im not sure if the Lehners coils are rhomboid in nature they may be. Youd have to ask Chris hes the real Lehner expert on board here. Close friends with Hanz Lehner. If you had any difficulties with the Lehner motors you should direct them his way. He should be able to provide you solid answer. I saw the Kfxguy's thread about them slipping shafts but didn't want it to seem like I was trying to start something right after our blowout.So I did not comment their. He is the Guy on Lehners though. I wont hate on him like that. He can truly help and advise you guys with the Lehners and what they like to see. I was just obliging in the shade thrown. The man is smart as hell. Real Talk! Ive written him in German and explained it is no slight so I don't expect he will have issues with real question concerning real issues anyone had. I was curious being that Im at the consumer crossroad. Steve given me things at this point so Ill have to pay him some hommage its only professionally courteous but I like Lehners and Plettenburg alike. Christian know both the men personally. I think they all race one another or with each other at one time. Chris has been around for sure.

Regards
Hubert

[jingalls007]

Interesting. And way more information that my brain can store ��.

I bought the Teras to compare to a TP of similar size and weight, the 5690. The TP is a 680kv 12s motor while the Teras is a 950kv 10s motor. Besides those two differences, and a few extra grams of mass, what could I expect in a head to head comparison based on what you know about both manufacturers? The TP?s continuous output is 9kw while the Teras is 8kw max. (Pletts built to run at max rpm)

[photohoward1]

Was that with the Plett 370BM?

Yes. I have 2. Also I like Terry have never had any luck with MGM. they are ridiculous to program. Way too complicated.


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