TFL Pursuit II

[NativePaul]

Where I am all Monos self right, those that don't start off self-righting all get modded for it before their second season, most of the cats in our club Cat2 class self-righted too.

Personally I am not a big mono fan only having one Mono1 race boat but I would never run a mono that didn't self-right, its all they have going for them IMO, cats are faster and turn better in the calm and riggers are faster and turn better in any conditions, Ecos are damn near as fast and turn like UFOs.

I imagine self-righting would be pretty pointless for 6 lap sprint racing as you lose around 5-6 seconds or half a lap turning back over and getting up to speed again (I guess you are all within half a lap over 6, so it would still put you in last place same as if you had not of righted), I don't expect that airing out a little would net you 1/12th average speed advantage so you would be better off saving the weight and carrying on as is, for offshore racing I think it would be a different story, as you would have a lot more time to pull your position back should you flip, we race monos for 6 minutes and while it can often mean losing a place or two, it would be unusual to go from first to last and stay there because of a single flip, our longer races mean that we only need 1/60th average speed advantage (less than 1mph)to make up for a flip which can easily be done by airing out a little more than you would want to with a non self-righting boat, I imagine that the 1/40th average speed advantage you guys would need for offshore racing would be pretty easy too.

As for dead boats moving I can see Terry's point for sprint racing as going wide on 1 corner could cost you a place or two, but for longer races dead boats don't stay put anyway, I have seen dead boats drifting in and out of the racing line several times during a 5 minute Hydro race, and even right down the straight and back again. I believe there is far more to be lost to someone who is prepared to narrowly miss a dead boat every lap rather than give it a respectable distance during an endurance race than there is to be lost going wide for a dead boat that disappears. Personally I much prefer racing alongside self righting boats, even though my cat was one of the few in the club that didn't, it was nice to have high likelihood of a clear course to run on. In the Hydro classes where the vast majority of boats can't self-right I always appreciate it if they can make it off the racing line to the interior of the course.

[TheShaughnessy]

dont want to turn this into a "racing" thread but If there isn't a rule yet I would vote on one, and expedite the process if possible (there is a rule where If a boat doesn't move for 5 seconds it is considered a "dead boat. Not sure how long the new pursuit would take to self right). My first season of racing I was lucky to finish the heat. My last race, 3 years after I started was the first time I finished all 4 heats.

This isn't short course truck racing, we race rc boats, and one of the goals is to achieve a scale representation of a full size boat race. I have never seen a 1:1 scale boat self right so I don't think the race boats should.

I'm not scared someone with a self righting hull would beat me, they almost certainly would, finish all 4 heats and that's half the battle. But if you ask me, that sounds like cheating.

I also agree with what has been said. 5th place flips.... 1st place is getting ready to lap him but his boat self rights, he thinks he's gonna get out of the way but drives right in front of him allowing 2nd place by to take the lead. Or a similar situation is the reason self righting boats don't belong on the race course.

That being said I've messed with a self-righting hull and for sport running they are awesome.

[Luck as a Constant]

Arbitrary implies without reason and/or unfair. I gave reason. I think it's truly "unfair" to the racers that build and drive their boats to compete and finish. Those racers out number the self righters about 30 to 1 based on what we've seen at races. I'm being generous of course because in 10+ years I've seen two. So it's more like 1000:1. The first was at the 2006 nationals. Never saw that boat again. The second I've seen multiple times and the gentleman that runs it is extremely careful with it as he knows how much it annoys his fellow racers.

I didn't always think this way either. I actually built a boat with a flood chamber. I was bad for not finishing. Particularly in offshore heats. I was pushing way beyond my ability and was trying to compensate for that with a self righting setup. Never got to race it nationally. It really wasn't until our current national chairman and I talked further about it (over a heaping plate of lasagna I think haha) that I changed my thinking.

Here's a plan. When we see the full scale Miss Geico and Motley blow off the water and then flip over to finish a race I'll start doing it too.

Traditional flex cable. Yes please. The square drive works but is a pain to maintain. Especially between heats at a race.

why not bring that thinking into all forms of racing then. if you wipe out, you're done. seems reasonable.

[T.S.Davis]

(which is most of the sales)

I'll bet that's 90+% of sales to be honest.

[T.S.Davis]

Arbitrary implies without reason and/or unfair. I gave reason. I think it's truly "unfair" to the racers that build and drive their boats to compete and finish. Those racers out number the self righters about 30 to 1 based on what we've seen at races. I'm being generous of course because in 10+ years I've seen two. So it's more like 1000:1. The first was at the 2006 nationals. Never saw that boat again. The second I've seen multiple times and the gentleman that runs it is extremely careful with it as he knows how much it annoys his fellow racers.

I didn't always think this way either. I actually built a boat with a flood chamber. I was bad for not finishing. Particularly in offshore heats. I was pushing way beyond my ability and was trying to compensate for that with a self righting setup. Never got to race it nationally. It really wasn't until our current national chairman and I talked further about it (over a heaping plate of lasagna I think haha) that I changed my thinking.

Here's a plan. When we see the full scale Miss Geico and Motley blow off the water and then flip over to finish a race I'll start doing it too.

Traditional flex cable. Yes please. The square drive works but is a pain to maintain. Especially between heats at a race.

[electric]

I can see both sides of the coin on the racing part. Good arguments to be made either way, but for sport boating (which is most of the sales) it would be awesome. I would buy one.

[Rumdog]

How about a traditional 3:16" flex cable and prop shaft?!

[kenrid]

Monica,

I have enjoyed my Pursuit, very fast and stable and I plan to upgrade soon with a CF Ariane. I have not seen many boats in Australia with flood chambers, but I understand they are popular in EU.

I suggest you post a similar message on the RC Groups.com Forum - racing boats electric. Many Europeans post there, including one very experienced boater from the Netherlands whose boats feature flood chambers. He may be willing to assist in your future designs?

[Luck as a Constant]

TFL Pursuit II

I agree with Mr. Davis a self righting hull doesn't belong in racing, but is a great ideal for "playing"

With regards to racing...

Doesn't a self righting hull defeat the purpose? The idea of racing is knowing the balance between speed and handling for any given hull.

Later,
Ball

Not really.
In many forms of racing, a competitor has a chance to get back on course if they can. Look at Baja racing, or hurdles for ex. When someone falls doing hurdles, are they not allowed to continue? The list could go on and on.
I think it just bothers you guys to think someone with a self righting hull could beat you because of that. Wouldn't want that would you.....
Again, it's just arbitrary and capricious if you ask me....


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[longballlumber]

I agree with Mr. Davis a self righting hull doesn't belong in racing, but is a great ideal for "playing"

With regards to racing...

Doesn't a self righting hull defeat the purpose? The idea of racing is knowing the balance between speed and handling for any given hull.

Later,
Ball

[Luck as a Constant]

Fair enough


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[T.S.Davis]

Go back to post 11.

BTW.....I've seen 3 self righting boats raced outside of eco since 2000. Sure enough, one of them was driven like it was being chased by the law man.

Self righting is fine just not for racing and only my opinion.

[Luck as a Constant]

Seems arbitrary


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[Luck as a Constant]

There is no rule preventing self righting boats from continuing but there will be if we start seeing a bunch of them.

Why


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[T.S.Davis]

There is no rule preventing self righting boats from continuing but there will be if we start seeing a bunch of them.