NAMBA P-Ltd Motor discussion

[T.S.Davis]

Also, NONE of my props that work are simply "sharpened and balanced"... ALL of them have a tweak or a cut or a bend or SOMETHING that has been done to them to make them work. .

Darin, this is where we want to point new comers to the sport? RTR guys? We (most of us) recognize the importance of keeping the RTR's part of this limited riddle. Those newer guys have to get lapped by us guys that don't own a simple prop. I've actually stopped reefing on my props for that reason.

I missed AoA. Good one. Didn't think of that. Strut angle too. Usually that makes them hop and not burn up but you're right. It's a factor.

You tell us we can't know what caused our failures without data but you can "suggest" that 80% of the failures in boats you've never even seen are due to setup issues? If Randy looks at the boats with 30+ years of setup experience and finds no blaring issues is that enough?

125 degrees is okay and 128 degrees is a burnt motor? 3 degrees above Dave's recommended. That's pretty sensitive.

[Darin Jordan]

125 degrees is okay and 128 degrees is a burnt motor? 3 degrees above Dave's recommended. That's pretty sensitive.

128-degrees WHEN? After it sat waiting to be retrieved? Was that core temperature, or temperature on the can? Things cool down quickly with water in the cooling jacket. 30-seconds is a LONG time before measuring to get an accurate idea.

Please understand that I'm NOT saying the motor didn't fail, or that they aren't sensitive to setups, but I am concerned that the BLAME for these failures is being directed by emotions, not facts. There are a LOT of us out here NOT having serious motor issues. There must be a reason for that?

I also remember there being issues in the past with the Schultz controllers and the Neu-Motors. Everyone wants "cheap" ESCs. Are these the problem? I almost exclusively run Castles, if I venture from the stock Pro Boat/Dynamite stuff. Maybe that's the deal?

P-LTD Racing has been a HUGE boost to NAMBA. Whether they'll admit it or not, I think it's been for IMPBA as well. I hate to see us throwing the whole deal out because we racers have raised our expectations from having competitive and reliable 45mph setups to having 55 mph setups, with longer and heavier boats. THAT is what has happened here, more than anything else.

[T.S.Davis]

128-degrees WHEN? After it sat waiting to be retrieved? Was that core temperature, or temperature on the can? Things cool down quickly with water in the cooling jacket. 30-seconds is a LONG time before measuring to get an accurate idea..

This is where I get so frustrated. I've built 100plus boats and turned thousands of laps in every kind of weather from snow to 102 degree heat wave with every kind of equipment from mechanical sweeper speedos to Schulze and still because you haven't had problems you discount my findings with minutia like the time between the last pull of the trigger and checking the temperature. I can't give you an exact time. Long enough to get from the shore to the bench and rip the tape. I know what you've assumed. Next time I'll get in the water and check it the very second that I let go of the trigger.

Oh wait.............how could I be so dense.........now I get it............. to know for sure...............I must have an eagle tree verifying temps during the run. duhhh...... Should I get the telemetry and have someone read it during the whole run? I wonder if we can get AQ and PB to add that to the RTR's since those guys will be running against me too. They'll need to start tweaking props on day one to keep from getting lapped. Can't do that without run time temps.

I'm beginning to understand where Doug was coming from. RTR's might get guys to buy boats but compete?.........yeah I guess sometimes if everyone else flips over.

[Darin Jordan]

Terry, you are taking what I said too far. You KNOW I wasn't talking down to anyone and I didn't discount anyone's findings. Only suggested that we be careful when assigning blame.

[Darin Jordan]

You are also ignoring the facts that I stated regarding how hard these are getting pushed. With each new P-LTD boat you've built, have you gone smaller, lighter, or less stressful on the power system?

Redundant question. .. I already know the answer.

[longballlumber]

This is where I get so frustrated. I've built 100plus boats and turned thousands of laps in every kind of weather from snow to 102 degree heat wave with every kind of equipment from mechanical sweeper speedos to Schulze and still because you haven't had problems you discount my findings with minutia like the time between the last pull of the trigger and checking the temperature. I can't give you an exact time. Long enough to get from the shore to the bench and rip the tape. I know what you've assumed. Next time I'll get in the water and check it the very second that I let go of the trigger.

Oh wait.............how could I be so dense.........now I get it............. to know for sure...............I must have an eagle tree verifying temps during the run. duhhh...... Should I get the telemetry and have someone read it during the whole run? I wonder if we can get AQ and PB to add that to the RTR's since those guys will be running against me too. They'll need to start tweaking props on day one to keep from getting lapped. Can't do that without run time temps.

I'm beginning to understand where Doug was coming from. RTR's might get guys to buy boats but compete?.........yeah I guess sometimes if everyone else flips over.

Come on Terry.... This is going way to far...

You need to take a look at the current points situation in OUR OWN CLUB... Most (not all) of the current leaders, top 3, top 6,... however you want to look at it are running RTR hulls! As a matter of fact the guy leading P-Limited Offshore is running a SV-27 for gods sake....

What did the results of the last 3 years of each club class look like?

What you posted above does not fall inline with what is happening in our own club.

[Darin Jordan]

OH, Terry... by the way...


I LOVE YOU, MAN!!

[T.S.Davis]

Yeah, I should have added a sarcasm emoticon Mike. Sorry.

My point still stands. It's not practical or reasonable to expect racers in classes like these to have real time temps, amps, and up close footage of ride attitude to determine if a setup is right. It's supposed to be a mid level class structure. It shouldn't be that complicated.

Those that feel the motors are dead solid perfect are quick to poo poo any observations or experiences that point to a conclusion other than user error and/or just pushing too hard.

Our gang finished 4 guys in the top 10 at the nationals. It's a pretty strong group in my opinion. The guys that are winning our classes aren't running eagle tree, checking setups with feeler gauges for AoA. Not many one off props that are bent, shaved, trimmed and hardened for a single purpose built boat. Yet they still won some nat championships and placed well. Sooooo..........is it necessary to do all that rot? I would say NO IT IS NOT! Should it be? No way. If it is the classes days are truly numbered.

Now if those guys have some unexplained motor failures.......the answer is.............well, clearly bad setups.

[Doug Smock]

[Doby]

So...as this discussion is basically turning into a bitching, love/hate, she said/he said kinda thing about the reliability of the Aquacraft 2030 motor and the ability/ in-ability of some people to properly set-up their boats, the relative water density in the northern hemisphere vs the southern hemisphere....solar flares affecting motor timing etc....and getting us NOWHERE.....

Time for some Kanadian over-simplification reasoning....keep the current motors on the list, use the NAMBA rule guidelines about +/- this spec , and +/- that kv rating.....forget about the requirement of it being in a RTR and go with that to select new motors that will supplement the current ones (or one)

Sounds pretty simple to me.

But then again, I'm Kanadian.

I hate to say it...but Cheese Head Peterson is doing the right thing...(god that hurts)

[Darin Jordan]

I give up.

Have fun, guys...

[RandyatBBY]

The relative water density in the northern hemisphere vs the southern hemisphere....solar flares affecting motor timing etc....and getting us NOWHERE.....

Time for some Kanadian over-simplification reasoning....keep the current motors on the list, use the NAMBA rule guidelines about +/- this spec , and +/- that kv rating.....forget about the requirement of it being in a RTR and go with that to select new motors that will supplement the current ones (or one)

Sounds pretty simple to me.


I hate to say it...but Cheese Head Peterson is doing the right thing...(god that hurts)

This is what I said some 200 post ago. Get on the stick Dave Newland or your winter racing of P LTD with Present motors will be up in smoke.

[Chilli]

Time for some Kanadian over-simplification reasoning....keep the current motors on the list, use the NAMBA rule guidelines about +/- this spec , and +/- that kv rating.....forget about the requirement of it being in a RTR and go with that to select new motors that will supplement the current ones (or one)

Sounds pretty simple to me.

Not as simple as it seems. Any addition with a perceived performance advantage is going to cause members to kick and scream they have to buy new motors to stay competitive. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'm going to sell my FE30 and build a Q Sport Hydro.

[Namba328]

I give up.

Have fun, guys...

I didn't take what you said to heart and got butt hurt over it. I use these forums to talk to people like yourself who I know that have been doing this p-spec stuff since the beginning. I don't think there was anything wrong with my setup. I set the strut and turn fin on a setup board. I also don't think that a stainless prather 220 is neither to small or too big. So the only thing that I think may of been the problem was the esc and/or the motor. My guess is the spedo because it made the boat turn left and flat run away like there was no radio at all. I have tested my servo and the reciever and they are both working perfectly fine. So my guess is that my aquacraft unit had a major internal malfunction.

[D. Newland]

Randy,

If you want potatoes, grab the hoe. I will do nothing until there is a no-brainer solution this issue.

Oh, and remember that I do this for the enjoyment of the hobby. I have no formal authority or higher power to make rule proposals for FE. Any NAMBA member can do just as much as I do with regards to rules.

If you, or anyone else feels like they have the solution and want the FE helm for NAMBA, email Robert Holland @ hollandframe@aol.com. There are a few hot FE topics that could probably benefit from your opinion and expertise right now. Maybe a fresh FE perspective is what is needed in NAMBA.