NAMBA's P Limited Rules.

[T.S.Davis]

In the end what this all boils down to for us is that we WANT you guys to be part of our Can-Am event. Sure we could probably fill the classes with more LSG and possibly Nitro but having all three power sources is super cool IMHO. It represents what we "do" as a hobby/sport!

Thanks Terry. We enjoy attending. I've never been a fuel guy. In fact, for a long time I wasn't a fan of mixed events but between you guys and he Atlanta gang I've come to really enjoy it. We get to see it all. Very partial to Thunderboats. I've also found that we're all the same. Model boaters. We're an odd lot. A little quirky. A lot silly. Mostly though.......everybody wants to have fun. Of course it's competition. Otherwise why bother but I think the vast majority see the hobby for what it is.

The only difference between what we proposed and what NAMBA adopted was 2mm in length. No weight limit was included.

I wasn't being critical of your event on the limited rule thing either. Only pointing out that there was a difference from race to race even though the intention was to be the same.

[dethow]

If "special classes" were awarded "National Champion" trophies that was probably just an unfortunate oversight.

I really don?t want to get into this mess again... but it was NO oversight Terry. The questions of if Spec classes would be awarded National Champion status came up months in advance of the race. I personally talked to the FE Director on the phone and made the leadership at MMEU aware of the problem months before the race. I was told to go pound sand. In the words of an individual with IMPBA leadership... they can do whatever they want.
All of that is what lead to me publicly calling out IMPBA for not following the rules. They felt that as long as they could get away with allowing the spec classes to race and be awarded National Championship status then there would be no reason to EVER put the classes in the rule book.
The FE Director personally told me that I?m the only one who cares that the rules aren?t be followed. They knew... but they viewed that allowing the rules to be skated around was better then allowing spec classes in the rule book. The FE Director as told me that if he has his way Spec classes will never be in the rule book and that if there is another FE Nats he would still allow National Champion status on the awards. Again... this was NO OVERSIGHT.

None the less... I’m not going to re-litigate that mess. Bottom line is that it sounds like you understand the rules and plan on following them. For that I clap my hands and hope the IMPBA leadership doesn’t lead you down a road of skating around the rules the way they previously did. Push your original question... push to get Spec Classes in the rule book. That’s what should be done. That’s what I was pushing for.

[Terry Keeley]

I really don?t want to get into this mess again... but it was NO oversight Terry. The questions of if Spec classes would be awarded National Champion status came up months in advance of the race. I personally talked to the FE Director on the phone and made the leadership at MMEU aware of the problem months before the race. I was told to go pound sand. In the words of an individual with IMPBA leadership... they can do whatever they want.
All of that is what lead to me publicly calling out IMPBA for not following the rules. They felt that as long as they could get away with allowing the spec classes to race and be awarded National Championship status then there would be no reason to EVER put the classes in the rule book.
The FE Director personally told me that I?m the only one who cares that the rules aren?t be followed. They knew... but they viewed that allowing the rules to be skated around was better then allowing spec classes in the rule book. The FE Director as told me that if he has his way Spec classes will never be in the rule book and that if there is another FE Nats he would still allow National Champion status on the awards. Again... this was NO OVERSIGHT.

Oh well, if it happened as you say (there are always two sides to every story or course) it was a mistake, they do happen you know. Again, in the big scheme of things it really isn't that important, what IS important is that there was an IMPBA "FE National Regatta" that was well attended and fun for all. That's what this is supposed to be about, right?

I won't discuss this anymore as it is ancient history and flogging a dead horse doesn't benefit anyone.

It's also not why I started this thread if you read my original post again.

[T.S.Davis]

Why can't we get this done?

It could be that the concern is that FE has too many classes already. We do. For sure. The problem with FE is that as it evolves we keep every class on the books regardless of need. This isn't unique to IMPBA. Once it's in there it's forever.

[Terry Keeley]

It could be that the concern is that FE has too many classes already. We do. For sure. The problem with FE is that as it evolves we keep every class on the books regardless of need. This isn't unique to IMPBA. Once it's in there it's forever.

Yup! I'm sure that has a lot to do with it but from what I see on the outside looking in is that "P-Limited" is a very popular class and should be in the Rule Book. If the only difference between what you proposed and the NAMBA rule is 2mm maybe that's not the real issue, maybe it IS that there will be too many classes.

Maybe what you guys really need to do is pare down some of the classes that aren't run much anymore. The gas guys did this a few years ago when they eliminated "other than" piston port intakes, the records were archived and the other classes prospered. We are kinda in the same boat in nitro IMHO, we have classes that are not run much but are in the books, too many classes for too few contestants.

So, if that's the real issue (too many classes) why don't you look at cleaning house a bit? I know it will be unpopular with the record holders but if they are archived their names are there forever showing their accomplishments. And the majority will be better off.

Do you really need "N Stock" AND "N Super Stock"? What about N (2 cell)? Do you really need Q, S & T? What about just a T? (10 cell). What about a "big cell" class only that has 6-10 cells? I don't see much difference in speeds for these records.

That's what I'd be looking at if I were you guys.

ps: It doesn't have to in there forever, classes can and are removed. The organization is very democratic if you follow procedures and go through the proper channels...

[T.S.Davis]

Terry, I tried to do exactly as you described. It was an effort to get rid of something useless and replace it with something that made heats. I was shot down on paring down the classes too. We have to save those old classes for one or two guys that ran them at a time trial once per year. We haven't seen a heat of some classes for 5 plus years now.

[Peter A]

I can't help but continue to be amazed at how badly grown men can behave over toy boats. Not you guys here, it's those who seem to like to run and control associations, ignoring the membership, constitutions and so on. Sort of spoils the fun doesn't it?
The class thing is the thing really. Like you guys, we now have 10 gazillion FE classes but can hardly put together anything more than P mono as a class at a regatta. Mostly this was done by one person just so they could set as many records as possible. Something because it exists I have been able to do as well, but whatever for that, I am over our national association and their bs!
Looking at how to grow FE in our club I am thinking through what will work best, be fair for racing, simple and generally affordable.
So far I am at;
P-Q Offshore and Hydro, max 6000 mah.
Open Electric, max 12s 10,000mah.
Pretty much just three classes, hard to be any more simple.

[HTVboats]

I do not think we should use the logic that there are too many classes to suppress a popular and functioning class. Who cares how many classes are in the rule book. It does not mean your club has to offer them on a flyer. People will build and support boats that others in their area are running. Numbers will dictate what runs. Not having consistent national rules for maybe the largest group of FE racers is a shame and does not help promote growth.
Yes N-S and T are rarely run and if offered at a national event there would need to be some minimum number to make the class. P and Q then maybe open would cover things then add limited classes to suit the needs in an area.
Gas keeps adding classes almost every time we turn around and they are filling them and growing.
Mic

[Peter A]

Just so there is no confusion, I am in New Zealand and our club numbers only 15 or so. Mostly it is gassers but the interest in electric is growing...slowly. There are some issues in getting batteries, mostly at reasonable prices, it means buying out of HobbyKing Australia and a four week delivery. Most other stuff is available with no real problems from OSE and other sites. Next to no FE stuff available in NZ apart from the pathetic RTR offerings (Sonicwake!)
In another perspective, the entire New Zealand Model Powerboat Association numbers only in the 50's, and very likely to be a few less next year! They just don't get the bit where they need boaters more than the boaters need them!

[T.S.Davis]

You may be right Mic but when last I proposed a limited to IMPBA there were some that felt we already had too many. Myself included. I wanted to drop the 2s classes. All of them. It would have cleared out 13 classes that haven't made heats that I'm aware of in years. Key being "that I'm aware of". I don't know everyone obviously.

I just looked again. IMPBA FE has 5 power levels and 5 hull classifications. So that's 25 classes. Then N stock and N super stock adds 8 more. So that's 33. Then throw in scale unlimited for a grand total of 34 classes to get distracted by. If "limited" was added that makes for 39 classes to choose from if you open the book. Not sure about NAMBA. I penned and filed 10th scale vintage and modern. I didn't bother with signatures on that. We'll just run that locally.

I wonder how many gas classes there actually are. I'm not sure I could even figure it out. I'm so fuel ignorant.

[Terry Keeley]

You may be right Mic but when last I proposed a limited to IMPBA there were some that felt we already had too many. Myself included. I wanted to drop the 2s classes. All of them. It would have cleared out 13 classes that haven't made heats that I'm aware of in years. Key being "that I'm aware of". I don't know everyone obviously.

I just looked again. IMPBA FE has 5 power levels and 5 hull classifications. So that's 25 classes. Then N stock and N super stock adds 8 more. So that's 33. Then throw in scale unlimited for a grand total of 34 classes to get distracted by. If "limited" was added that makes for 39 classes to choose from if you open the book. Not sure about NAMBA. I penned and filed 10th scale vintage and modern. I didn't bother with signatures on that. We'll just run that locally.

I wonder how many gas classes there actually are. I'm not sure I could even figure it out. I'm so fuel ignorant.

Wow! That's a lot of classes, I still dread "How to tech a Paradox" should someone set an N Stock or N Super Stock record at Flint one of these years.

Pretty easy to see how many classes there are, just look at the records: https://www.impba.net/rule-book.html

If it's a recognized National class there's a record for it. The largest segment of our hobby (LSG) has only 17 classes, they realized what was working, cut the fat off the bone and archived the old records. Nitro and FE could learn from that. I hear you too Mic, but if there's only so many boaters to go around having a limited number of classes works best. Guys don't usually check what's popular in their area, they look at what's available and then build it to find there's no one to race against. Or they race it in their area only to find out no one else in the country races it.

Then they just quit and do something else.

ps: Here's what happened to L, N-1, O-1 & O-2 ten years ago: https://nebula.wsimg.com/aafae923672...&alloworigin=1

[T.S.Davis]

Ed was the cream of the crop. That gauge by which all will be measured hence forth IMO.

[Terry Keeley]

Ed was the cream of the crop. That gauge by which all will be measured hence forth IMO.

That's for sure! Very generous soul that gave much of himself to our hobby/sport.

Godspeed Ed!

[Diegoboy]

[Reaching into pockets] ...look, i want to thank you guys for maintaining composure here. I know this is a sensitive topic and you all seem to remember that no matter which side of the fence you sit, the ones replying here are not your enemy and not the individual(s) responsible for your frustrations.
I've got $0.02 to chime in on the class removal discussion. I had an N cat that i ran in SAW, although no one seems to run N in heat racing, if they remove the class then i can no longer run N in any SAW event. So does that make the latest record holder forever on the books with no way to challenge?

[T.S.Davis]

I don't think they're going anywhere Danny. The BOD slam dunked that idea outright.

It's remaining civil because I simply refuse to respond to efforts to paint Tom and I as a tyrants.