Blueprinting UL-1 Motor Wires

[Doby]

Chille


Yep - these were designed for rtr toy boats for the purpose of selling to the masses for a profit. We made a decision to incorporate them into our race boats. Of course I think the confusion still exists whether these classes were supposed to be rtr, beginners classes or actually an extension of the old 700 spec classes.

Darin


The boat racing started with 05 motors and then we evolved with the Astro Flight, Plettenberg and then the drill motors. Not a lot of choices available when the spec classes were developed. When the P-Limited motors were selected we were already running many varieties of good quality proven brushless motors. Lehners, Hackers, Aveox and many more. I guess the thinking/confusion again was that rtr/beginners will grow the sport. This is highly debatable of course as I have seen many beginners start and quit as much as I have seen nitro races converting to electric (not because of the spec motor but because of the speeds they see).

Side note - I am still learning more about the Gas classes (running a Thunderboat), but I am not seeing the gas guys speccing the lowest quality rtr motor they can get their hands on.

Mike Caruso - what do you mean by coating the motor wires?

Back to the subject of cooling - Cooling is absolutely needed where ever you can provide it. For the most part we can cool the can and the end bells which in turn cools the magnets. The heat is generated in the windings. Our cooling has little to no impact on the windings. So what to do? - keep timing down, prop down, set boat up to run loose and get rid of all un-necessary prop area.

My horse got back up for a few minutes - going outside now to beat him back down. :)

A Peterson Sighting in Wisconsin:

http://youtu.be/Z4mVsa-t3-k

[Chilli]

Chille


Yep - these were designed for rtr toy boats for the purpose of selling to the masses for a profit. We made a decision to incorporate them into our race boats. Of course I think the confusion still exists whether these classes were supposed to be rtr, beginners classes or actually an extension of the old 700 spec classes.

You hit the nail on the head. I come to realize a few years back when the big ESC debates took place that the Limited classes have different purposes to different groups. I know the NAMBA districts out west have a more mature FE racing program so it's futile to argue needs of a class when we each have a different direction we want to pursue. In our district the purpose of the Limited class was created to attract new racers and establish a drivers class. For now, everyone is playing nice. But if gets to the point were people start sacrificing equipment for trophies, maybe we will look into spec'ing props. Interestingly enough, Look's like everyone has gone from complaining about ESC's a few years ago to motors now.

[Doug Smock]

Prop choice (work) is key with these set ups. Just a little cutting, reducing, etc. can go a long way in reducing motor temps. Free up some rpms and watch the temps fall.

No matter what our means of attempting to cool the stators, a 1hp motor isn't going to pull a 2hp load for any length of time.

[photohoward1]

Think of this. If we spec'd the props and used for example Leopard 4074/2200kv motors....They would last forever. (yes they are more watts than the AQ Motors but if we spec say x445 props or equivalent (h5 or 4555) We could easily run 120 amp seakings or equivalent esc all day only pulling 80 to 90 amps.

Just a thought.....

[Chilli]

Got anything in mind for the Tunnel guys? I'd hate to be the one to tell the tunnel heads on IW!! LOL

[TheShaughnessy]

I run a 447 and a 1800 kv in my limited cat. I was able to his 45.6 mph as verified only by Tony's GPS. Our last race tony and Stephen ran 2030's. they started with 42 and were a tad slower then me then. Stephen went to a 445. His boat was fast. Running loose and on the ragged edge but fast. One heat he lead for 5 and a half laps when suddenly he was dead in the water at the exit of turn 2. Brought the motor back in to find melted heat shrink and touching wires where they exit the end bell.

As for the limited hydros well I can't say. I've moved on but too much thought on the event is just depressing. My plans were to run a 1800 kv PB in that as well but I never got to do any testing on it.

Now on to changing spec motors. Run full blown p then, convince those in your club it's better and go with it. What was discovered here in D19 is that a castle or Neu 15151y ( common p motor) in a FE 30 makes it too fast to stay wet side down in race chop resulting in more dnfs then deck to deck racing or even finishing a heat. As I'm sure we all know you have to finish the race to win. In addition the extra speed you can squeeze out of the leopard 2200 kvs means more damage in a crash or blow off.

The way I see it there are 2 options, run the class get the set up right and be positive about it. Or find anything and everything to complain about and be a negative nancy I hate life kind of person.

The only problems with the class are the ones we make.

[Darin Jordan]

As we've shown, and discussed at length over the years... spec'ing props doesn't solve anything... Those that can tweak will and game over. Plus, different hulls require different props... You'd turn a LIMITED (not "spec'd) motor class into a Limited Hull Class... Sounds a lot like Spec SV27 to me...

Racing is going to be racing, regardless of the motor used. There isn't a magic bullet, outside of spec'ing an entire boat system, that will prevent some from succeeding, some failing, some equipment surviving, and some not... Doug had it just right... just a LITTLE bit of time spent learing to tune a boat will go a long ways. People talk about how hard we are on equipment "out west here"... yet, I can't recall a motor being sacrificed yet, especially in the name of a trophy. My P-Ltd OPC Lynx, which has proven to be "pretty fast", draws right around 85-95 Amps... comes in after a 1-Mile heat, running 15-second lap times (NAMBA 6-Lap record setter Twice this year with a 1:30.6, and just last week with a 1:28.44) at right around 110-degrees... Running a 42x55 on a UL-1 motor.

Racing is racing... and the P-Limited classes continue to have high participation. SOMETHING must be right about the formula...

Oh, and the whole "beginners class" is a complete misnomer... It's a limited class, from and equipment perspective, so it's more "beginner friendly", but I don't think the general intent was for it to be for beginners only. It's a way for EVERYONE to compete on a more restricted playing field. That's it.

[Darin Jordan]

2nd that.

See I learned today that the heat comes from the Stator. Since the stator heat is blocked from the case with one of the worlds best insulators AIR. We can only deal with the heat that makes it to the case and end plates. Great motors none the less.

Mike,

Actually, you might be pleasantly surprised at how much a simple fan blowing some air though the endbell can help. We have pretty stagnent air inside our boats. Circulating it around a bit does help. Every little bit helps...

I was having some issues at a SAW event with the wires between the motor and the ESC on one of my 1-Cell hydro setups (pulling 150+amps through a ROAR 540 motor... 3.5 Turn, if I recall).... I added a cooling fan from a Castle ESC and the problem went away...

The old 700 brushed motors used to have fans built in. Some Neus can be ordered with internal fans as well. A simple 5V can blowing air into the endbell helps to at least move the heat out. In fact... my good buddy, Tony H. revitalized this idea at the 2012 Nats... even loaned me one of his fans! :)

[ray schrauwen]

I like the ARC 36-55-1850kv motor. For $94 it's far more robust than any other 36-55 size motor in it's price range. The wire inside is at least 3-4 times the diameter of AQ motors if not larger and all are "y" winds. I've read all above, seems like it will stay the same. I'm all for p-sport then I guess but, not many around me interested yet.... We'll see what the next season has in store for us.

Darin, I had no idea that a certain motor either 1800kv or 2030kv would work differently in different hulls. I guess I just don't get enough pond time.

What motor and prop is best suggested for the PTSS hull then?? That said I just don't have the pond time to tinker with props nearly as much as a hard core racer would, that's my problem along with sore hands from arthritis.

[Darin Jordan]

Darin, I had no idea that a certain motor either 1800kv or 2030kv would work differently in different hulls. I guess I just don't get enough pond time.

What motor and prop is best suggested for the PTSS hull then?? That said I just don't have the pond time to tinker with props nearly as much as a hard core racer would, that's my problem along with sore hands from arthritis.

Ray, I'm definitely the WRONG person to query concerning making the PTSS hull to work... My Stealth 30 has me frustrated to the point where I'm about to "accidently" leave it behind Brian's car after the race so he'll back over it.

The best luck I've had with the 2030 motor in this boat was with a tweaked X440/3 blade.

[ray schrauwen]

I'll give it a shot. thx.

[Chilli]

As we've shown, and discussed at length over the years... spec'ing props doesn't solve anything... Those that can tweak will and game over. Plus, different hulls require different props... You'd turn a LIMITED (not "spec'd) motor class into a Limited Hull Class... Sounds a lot like Spec SV27 to me...

Racing is going to be racing, regardless of the motor used. There isn't a magic bullet, outside of spec'ing an entire boat system, that will prevent some from succeeding, some failing, some equipment surviving, and some not... Doug had it just right... just a LITTLE bit of time spent learing to tune a boat will go a long ways. People talk about how hard we are on equipment "out west here"... yet, I can't recall a motor being sacrificed yet, especially in the name of a trophy. My P-Ltd OPC Lynx, which has proven to be "pretty fast", draws right around 85-95 Amps... comes in after a 1-Mile heat, running 15-second lap times (NAMBA 6-Lap record setter Twice this year with a 1:30.6, and just last week with a 1:28.44) at right around 110-degrees... Running a 42x55 on a UL-1 motor.

Racing is racing... and the P-Limited classes continue to have high participation. SOMETHING must be right about the formula...

Oh, and the whole "beginners class" is a complete misnomer... It's a limited class, from and equipment perspective, so it's more "beginner friendly", but I don't think the general intent was for it to be for beginners only. It's a way for EVERYONE to compete on a more restricted playing field. That's it.

I don't think anyone has ever considered the Limited classes a true beginners class but as you said it's a great place to get your feet wet. That's why some of us might be overprotective of the class. I'm glad you guys on the west coast don't burn up gear in the name of taking home wood but there have been dozens of posts that indicate it does happen in other parts of the country. Why do I care so much about the rest of the country when I'm happy with the way things are going in my district? Because potential racers in my are read these posts and it may discourage them from getting into racing. When I read posts recommending a new Limited racer "pick up a couple spare motors if you want to be competitive", I cringe.

[Fluid]

As we've shown, and discussed at length over the years... spec'ing props doesn't solve anything... Those that can tweak will and game over....You'd turn a LIMITED (not "spec'd) motor class into a Limited Hull Class....

Actually our club has had very good success with a "spec" N2 Sport Hydro class. All motors are the same, and the club bought identical S&B props which everyone has to use as-in, no tweaking. If that ever becomes an issue in the future we'll just collect all the props after each heat and randomly redistribute them - problem swolved. We have three different hulls running very close together in speed, that means very close racing. Would this work in the P-Limited classes? Probably too complex, especially since the current formula is so successful. We developed this "club class" to allow our older LSH hulls to still race since P-Limited power was too much for the smaller hulls. Speeds are still upper 40s....

...Oh, and the whole "beginners class" is a complete misnomer... It's a limited class, from and equipment perspective, so it's more "beginner friendly", but I don't think the general intent was for it to be for beginners only....

That's how it is today, although the original LSH class was designed to be a beginner's class. From the 2006 NAMBA rule book: "Experienced racers are strongly urged to consider the skill level of the opponents when running in this class, since the intent is to encourage less skilled racers to have success." .



.

[Steven Vaccaro]

I may be wrong, but i think the scale unlimited guys run a spec'd prop. They have different hulls, running the same prop. It used to be a carbon prop. but its been a while since I asked.

Times have changed, as you guys know there are cnc props that can be used and restricted to leave as is.

[Darin Jordan]

I will give you this... spec'd props would make this game a lot less expensive, and less time consuming...

I vote for the ABC 42x55 or the GrimRacer (yes, the competition... ) 42x55...

Would make this an AQ2030 game, but it's pretty much that at this point anyhow... If you spec props, it certainly will be...