1/10 scale motor options... so now what?

[T.S.Davis]

No I meant if you went 60mm like has been tossed around. You're no going to pick up some crazy motor that upsets the apple cart. You guys picked 56.5 for a reason. Just tryi g to understand.

[Doug Smock]

No I meant if you went 60mm like has been tossed around. You're no going to pick up some crazy motor that upsets the apple cart. You guys picked 56.5 for a reason. Just tryi g to understand.

Got ya Terry, blew right passed that.
36.5 x 56.5 was proposed and accepted simply to do away with the motor list. The guys & gals want to continue to dance with the young lady that brought us. They feel like that is plenty of motor for these classes, I can't say I disagree with them.
60ish mm was proposed at the end of 17 for 18 and voted down.

[don ferrette]

In a blink of an eye 1/2 of the motors on the motor list are discontinued, the ProBoat and Dynomite motors are gone and rumor has it the UL-1 with the AQ2030 is on the chopping block for 2019. This is why I hate approved motor lists, now I'm thinking of doing a simple length & diameter limit. 36mm diameter for sure but if we go to 60mm can length it really opens up a lot of options yet still keeps the bigger more expensive motors like the NEU's out of the picture. All of the current "list" motors are in the 56mm length range so we are talking a mere 4mm more. Of the motors I've found that fit the 36x60 range the wattages and weight are very close and most are less than $100 (example 36x60mm OSE Raider #3660 $74.95). Need some feedback so I can finalize the rule set for the district meeting and so everyone who wants to give these baby scales a go in D12 can expand their choices for motors

[Moonie]

How many guys here race In D12?

[HTVboats]

In a blink of an eye 1/2 of the motors on the motor list are discontinued, the ProBoat and Dynomite motors are gone and rumor has it the UL-1 with the AQ2030 is on the chopping block for 2019. This is why I hate approved motor lists, now I'm thinking of doing a simple length & diameter limit. 36mm diameter for sure but if we go to 60mm can length it really opens up a lot of options yet still keeps the bigger more expensive motors like the NEU's out of the picture. All of the current "list" motors are in the 56mm length range so we are talking a mere 4mm more. Of the motors I've found that fit the 36x60 range the wattages and weight are very close and most are less than $100 (example 36x60mm OSE Raider #3660 $74.95). Need some feedback so I can finalize the rule set for the district meeting and so everyone who wants to give these baby scales a go in D12 can expand their choices for motors

Our host here OSE has very few motors under 57.5mm. As Don pointed out the "list" is shrinking. 60mm does seem to open up options with favorable costs and reflect the market. Most of the discussion we have had here in D-3 is in the 60-61mm range to encompass what is readily available. 57 to 62 seems to be the range everyone is toying with. If some miracle happened and a "compromise" between Namba, Impba, limited, spec and 1/10th rules were standardized, would that be a bad thing for FE? Your on the right track Don.
Mic

[T.S.Davis]

My thinking (stop laughing) on the 60mm mark is that it keeps out a doctor insano motor but allows us to find an alternative should Proboat and AQ stop making motors. Or if their supplier suddenly decides to buy an easier can to machine or something.

Perfect aint gonna happen but a bench mark has to happen somewhere. Sounds like Doug's guys just wanted to keep racing what they were racing. Not a criticism. I don't think they've dipped into 10th scale. We brought some down to Atlanta. Guys watched them go. They were probably in horror because we went the correct way. Like watching a car crash. MUST........TURN..........AWAY.........

[longballlumber]

Using watts to compare motors isn’t telling the whole story and I would argue it gives you a false positive of its capabilities. You really need to know the voltage and current being used to establish the watts value; or vise verse, if you want to estimate current limits. I only make this comment in caution because ALL of these motors are being pushed beyond their rated capacities.

16.0 volts X 95amp (average) = 1520 watts  for perspective the NEU 1515 is rated at 1250 continuous watts. However, the same questions need to be applied to the NEU ratings.

The only reason I question 60mm as a limit and not a shorter limit is the mythical beast we think fits in the 60mm range but not 58mm. Sure 60mm give us more options, but are they QUALITY options. There are SEVERAL posts about motors that simply don’t cut the mustard when compared to the 56mm motors that started all of this (turnigy, leopard come to mind). Also the longer you leave the limit the more room for innovation (we thought 62mm was OK).

I know many of you hold up burnt up motors/controllers as a badge of honor, I don’t subscribe to that mentality. If I am ever engaged by newer boater whether it be a cross over boater or a new boater, I am going tell him what BRAND and KV works for me or one that I know is a quality motor. I am not going to tell him 36X60 “go nuts” That way when he comes back and tells me the motor burnt up in 2min of runtime, I have already eliminated the motor as being the root cause. I am going to immediately look elsewhere.

ProMarine RTR’s SSS (w/3656) is under 57mm
The Aquacraft motors are under 57mm
The old proboat motors are under 57mm (don’t include the bearing protrusion)
The new proboat motors (UL-19 and Veles) are under 57mm
NEU 1412’s are under 57mm
TP Power 3630’s are under 58mm
HET Typhoon’s are under 58mm
Lepoards are over 60 – but don’t perform
OSE Raiders are right at the 60mm limit so depending on the allowance may or may not be legal. Secondly, (no offense to Steven or OSE) but they are not the first choice of racers. In fairness I have never ran one, but that has been communicated to me indirectly and based on my own observations.
Turnigy – don’t know the exact length, but it’s weak based on comments on OSE

It seems to be a forgone conclusion that we NEED to keep lengthening our limit; why not make the limit shorter? Easy, "perception" - long is better/faster.

[don ferrette]

Thanks for the input Mike. I got to the 36x60mm numbers by working off of the list of motors you sent me (BIG help thanks man!) and initially felt that 60mm offered the widest selection and keeps out the more powerful and far more expensive motors (like the Neu 1415 and 1512) as well as the potential "frankensteins" but I'm not locked in to it. 58.5mm is another I'm looking at, just want to give people the most viable and affordable options I can. Bottom line - I want boats on the water with decent reliability AND an attractive price point.

[don ferrette]

Our host here OSE has very few motors under 57.5mm. As Don pointed out the "list" is shrinking. 60mm does seem to open up options with favorable costs and reflect the market. Most of the discussion we have had here in D-3 is in the 60-61mm range to encompass what is readily available. 57 to 62 seems to be the range everyone is toying with. If some miracle happened and a "compromise" between Namba, Impba, limited, spec and 1/10th rules were standardized, would that be a bad thing for FE? Your on the right track Don.
Mic

I'm trying Mic, really. I have to be honest in that I'm kinda hoping this ultimately might spark something positive in at least getting closer to common ground. I've said it before and will continue to do so relentlessly- I think "approved motor lists" are absolutely no good for the very reason of stuff suddenly getting discontinued as well as other issues we've all seen. Straight up length and diameter limits are the way to go. Easy to understand, easy to "police" in the field and it takes care of itself for the most part. I've heard people say motor lists are fine as long as they are maintained and updated but when the question gets asked of who's gonna do the research, updating etc you get nothing but crickets. Sorry that dog don't hunt. Are length limits perfect? Of course not but nothing is, you will always have someone who will try to exploit (hybrids, frankensteins) the rules or even downright cheat. I've been looking really hard at this and I think somewhere between 58 and 60mm limit on length is where it needs to be. I feel anything over 60 opens the door wide for the frankensteins and custom one off stuff.

[T.S.Davis]

The options from 58 to 60 wouldn't make a lick of difference competition wise if they weren't included...........today at least. Looks like the Raiders, a couple TP, and one of the Promarine motors that has lower Kv. I don't think that one was intended for limited anyway. Who knows going forward. Wish we had a crystal ball. We just don't know if we'll need those couple mm to fill some future gap.

Clearly 62mm was too much and we thought that was going to work. I understand the apprehension Mike.

Maybe 58 and then if we find it's broke later we fix it. IDK. OH! Think of the fun we could have arguing over 2 mm! I know it's not worth it to me right now.

[Doug Smock]

I feel anything over 60 opens the door wide for the frankensteins and custom one off stuff.

A dimension rule opens the door. Optimized motors are being built. Everyone needs to accept that before they build a boat for the class(s).

[T.S.Davis]

Yes Doug but only so much power can be produced inside the dimensions. In theory of course. The 60mm (or 58 or 56.5 or whatever) was trying to keep much more powerful motors out of the mix.

[don ferrette]

A dimension rule opens the door. Optimized motors are being built. Everyone needs to accept that before they build a boat for the class(s).

Perhaps but you're only gonna go so far within the physical limitations but in this case going over 60mm let's in big dollar stuff right out of the gate and I'm eyeing cost as well. In the part you chose not quote I said length limits are not perfect, nothing is as you will always have someone who will try to exploit and cheat. Lists are dated due to specific availability the moment they get created, dimensional rules are not. And again they are easy to tech in the field. And lastly things change and evolve, like Terry said you'd need a crystal ball to know what might come out in the future but at least with dimensions it either fits or it doesn't no list updating needed.

[Doug Smock]

Not perhaps...And the limitations will be found. The point was everyone needs to accept that going in. Sounds like you have. Good deal!

[don ferrette]

Not perhaps...And the limitations will be found. The point was everyone needs to accept that going in. Sounds like you have. Good deal!

Just trying to find a good and simple path my brutha, you know I value your input no matter what.