Weigh in on motor comparision for 1:10 scale!

[rayzerdesigns]

You iz an impotent guy

lol

[DPeterson]

Thanks Doby. LOL

Just want to let you know specifically that I have the authority to even allow Canadians with their funny looking boats to run a few heats.

Doug

[Doby]

Then we will continue to get along...(more or less)

[leonard feeback]

The people just wanting speed probably aren't scale boaters anyway. Maybe they should try to get the proper set up to make the boat perform well instead of just using horsepower. Darin is correct racing is racing at any speed.

[T.S.Davis]

Maybe they should try to get the proper set up to make the boat perform well instead of just using horsepower.

That's the spirit. This is my favorite repeating theme.

We've heard this exact argument on 4 occasions now over the course of about 10 years.

The first time was when brushless motors hit the market. The brushed guys said "brushless motors are a substitute for skill". Whattttt everrrrr.

Then it popped up again when Lithium polymere hit the market. "If you worked on your setup you wouldn't need LiPo" Those guys also said we were all going to die in LiPo fires. Oh and that LiPo would spell the end of racing. A little over the top.

N1 guys have been using this for every tech change since I've been racing. "You don't like N1 because you can't do it". I don't do N1 because even watching them bores me to tears. Even at the nationals where guys are supposed to be top shelf. Snore.

The latest was the fluctuation in the limited motors. "You're having failures because you're not working your setups" Ah, the old stand by. Lack of ability and/or effort.

Yes, racing is racing at any speed. Unless...............that speed inspires too few to participate. Then nobody is racing.

[DPeterson]

Geez Terry

Some days you really tick me off. Then there are times I would like to plant a big kiss on that bald head of yours. Like right now after that last post.

Doug

[T.S.Davis]

Haha. Doug, all my friends go through that with me. Ask Fred about it some time. He's always on the edge of punching me in the head.

On the WW thing. You kinda did it backwards. If you had contacted them and said......"hey, let's put together a collection of motors and see if we can do anything smarter/different/better". Count the points, don't count the points, whatever, just to see if we're wasting our time. Throw in some SSS motors, maybe a Leopard or two, a Scorpion. Could even have done it one experimental class and called it "test of offshore lap systems" or "TOOLS" for short . That would have gone over I'll bet. Instead, you chose a motor, got relatively little test time on it, and wanted them to just accept it or your not playing.

See there ya go......now you can be pissed at me again. LOL

I do know that Tom is taking some SSS motors of various configurations with him to WW with hopes of just getting them in the water. Not to race in the classes. Just to turn some laps and see if there's any point in pursuing them further. The first motor we had hopes for, couldn't get it done. We were too conservative. The new batch should be closer.

[Darin Jordan]

Terry, you are getting too jaded...

Are you really trying to argue that setup isn't the reason why Brian runs away with P-LTD Hydro, for example? Really??

You think that I ran a 1:28.xx heat time in P-LTD OPC because of some other advantage? REALLY??

Do you REALLY believe that my Raptor Hydro, which isn't slow, can run a full heat race and not get over 110-degrees, turning an ABC 18-series prop, by some OTHER advantage other than setup? REALLY??

One thing I've learned in my limited travels is that people put WAY too much emphasis on "better batteries", or "more KV", etc... When if they'd learn to drive in lane one, make fewer driving errors, and actually spend some time tweaking, rather than throwing different props at it, they'd make much larger strides.

Not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand, but felt like typing a knee-jerk reaction... :)

[DPeterson]

Oh Terry

Can I take back that kiss? LOL

On the WW thing you are way wrong on how it went. Kind of how most things go in NAMBA - decisions based on assumptions. But I am not going to elaborate here.

You all have a good set of Happy Holidays now!

Doug

[T.S.Davis]

Had to go back and read it to see if I said that. I didn't. You only keyed in on one of them. You're comment could be applied to all kinds of stuff.

"When if they'd learn to drive in lane one, make fewer driving errors, and actually spend some time tweaking, rather than throwing different props at it, they'd make much larger strides"

This one is the classic. Try that sentence and replace "different props" with the following:

Lithium Polymer
Brushless motors
Oh! I forgot "Nimh" That was the same argument then too.
Chameleons (for N1)
Brushless again (for N1)
throw HV cells in there too. That's the next one that will fit.
The SS1 fit in there
stepped hulls (in offshore)
self righting (that one is true IMO)

Absolutely, the tweaker gets faster. Setup is king. That hasn't changed ever. However, if a tweaker builds two identical boats or if he swaps out two motors that are supposed to be identical and one fries then maybe it's not the tweaker. For those that already have the "you're already too close to the edge" in the chamber, save it. We're always at the edge. It's racing. Now if the edge moves.............and you're over............... on a spec motor that equates to buying another motor. Well it did for some.

This is what Doug mentioned earlier. Step past the edge on his TP and the boat is slow. Step over on a 2030 and frishizzle. At least for a little bit that seemed to be the case. I do have some of the earlier motors and they were running very well up until the water became a solid. I've got my fingers crossed on the updated versions.

I think this is why some of us get so worked up about it. I received a PM from a former LSH National champion, not just me, not just some hack, asking me "Are they really saying that we're having problems because we don't know what we're doing?" The condescension pisses people off. It wouldn't shock me at all if that condescension was what pushed D4 forward with the TP motors.

[T.S.Davis]

On the WW thing you are way wrong on how it went. Kind of how most things go in NAMBA - decisions based on assumptions. But I am not going to elaborate here.

Fair enough sir. I was no fly on that wall. I hope we can find some excuse to get together this summer. I so enjoy hanging out and racing with you guys. What about the Can Am? We'll talk.

[Darin Jordan]

Step past the edge on his TP and the boat is slow. Step over on a 2030 and frishizzle. At least for a little bit that seemed to be the case.

Terry, and Doug, I suppose...

The TP is an electric motor... When you find the REAL "step over" point, it's going to "frishizzle" as well.

In the meantime, at least in the context of a "mulitple-Motor allowance" "Limited/Spec" class, you've just defined a new "class of the field", "gotta have one to win", power system. Once everyone realizes that, they'll all get them (look at all those just jumping on board already... as if a different motor is going to fix all their setup issues... ), then everyone will be pushing them beyond what they were designed for (just like we are doing now with the current motors), and then they will start having "reliability" issues, and then the "frishizzling" will begin again, as will the bitching about motor quality.

Then we can start this all over again...

Gotta love Racing 101...

Of course, if you are defining a 1-Motor class... it's all good.

[T.S.Davis]

Yes Darin. I understand. If we find that edge we wont step over it..................unless it moves.

[rayzerdesigns]

Terry, and Doug, I suppose...

The TP is an electric motor... When you find the REAL "step over" point, it's going to "frishizzle" as well.

In the meantime, at least in the context of a "mulitple-Motor allowance" "Limited/Spec" class, you've just defined a new "class of the field", "gotta have one to win", power system. Once everyone realizes that, they'll all get them (look at all those just jumping on board already... as if a different motor is going to fix all their setup issues... ), then everyone will be pushing them beyond what they were designed for (just like we are doing now with the current motors), and then they will start having "reliability" issues, and then the "frishizzling" will begin again, as will the bitching about motor quality.

Then we can start this all over again...

Gotta love Racing 101...

Of course, if you are defining a 1-Motor class... it's all good.

Darrin, this might be the best response ever..period!!

[rayzerdesigns]

btw..club race this weekend here in chilly az..I will try to get some video, I have really come to terms with the proboat(dynamite)1500..plus cant complain with a motor that is in the 40 to 70 dollar range..i have thrown numerous props and setups and timing..it keeps going..so much so that I bought 4 of them just in case