Is the Venom Segad worth getting ?

[veejo]

Hello, I very new to the forum.

I had considered getting the Venom King of Shaves ....... but believe they have brought a "new and improved" boat called the Segad (also looks nicer colour wise).

Has anybody had any experience with the Segad and KOS who could outline the differences and preferences.

I was considering adding a twin motor boat to the flotilla. The dragon boats saga is impossible to get in Australia (Venom is at least an easy mail order from the USA, because none of the local shops have the KOS or Segad or can even get them, USPS is a saviour).

What is the best version of the "breed" the KOS, segad or Dragon Saga ?
What head aches am I buying with these twin motor boats (love my Proboat Mystic, great finish, great build, great value)
how will they perform compered to my Mystic in terms of speed and handling ?
I pressume twin motor, more speed ..... better weight distribution, etc.

[JIM MARCUM]

I've have a 56" Segad for over a year now. They're beautiful and relatively strong builds & fast when setup right. But they are easy to roll over. Like most of the Chineese FE boats out there, it's a good idea to add a 1" strip of fiberglass tape with vinylester or epoxy resin on the inside of the sponson seams. The hull can, & probably will, crack along the outboard sponson seams if you don't. If you want a boat that is strong & fast, it's hard to beat Aeromarine Sprint/Offshore cats. The're strong, fast & handle with the best out there.

For a FE twin motored cat, I recommend getting an Apparition Cat from Hobby King. I did, and the hull is very well built (won't need reinforcement), includes installed twin motors, drives, cooling tubings/fittings, props, & rudder assembly. Pretty too. I liked the twin so much I ordered a single motor version for a SAW build. See the attached pics. and/or visit Hobby King's website. Very well built, fast, pretty and will cost you less than $250 shipped. JIM

[Diesel6401]

The ekos, segad and dragon hobby saga are all the same hulls. Dragon hobby makes the hulls for Venom. The ekos v2 with the outrunners is going to be the same electronics in the Segad. The hull itself is not 34' like posted it's 32" and similar size to the apperiatin. The hulls themeself aren't that bad, are they on the level of the Mystic or Miss Geico not even close. I do feel that the hulls (including the apperation) are all better as single drive hulls where you can move the batts to the sponsons and handle turns better. They do make decent saw boats. For the price and IMHO you better off getting the bare TFL hobbies apperation hull from Ben @ fightercatracing.com labeled as the rivercat. That in a nice single motor setup would be a decent JMHO

[veejo]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]65658[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]65659[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]65660[/ATTACH]I've have a 56" Segad for over a year now. They're beautiful and relatively strong builds & fast when setup right. But they are easy to roll over. Like most of the Chineese FE boats out there, it's a good idea to add a 1" strip of fiberglass tape with vinylester or epoxy resin on the inside of the sponson seams. The hull can, & probably will, crack along the outboard sponson seams if you don't. If you want a boat that is strong & fast, it's hard to beat Aeromarine Sprint/Offshore cats. The're strong, fast & handle with the best out there.

For a FE twin motored cat, I recommend getting an Apparition Cat from Hobby King. I did, and the hull is very well built (won't need reinforcement), includes installed twin motors, drives, cooling tubings/fittings, props, & rudder assembly. Pretty too. I liked the twin so much I ordered a single motor version for a SAW build. See the attached pics. and/or visit Hobby King's website. Very well built, fast, pretty and will cost you less than $250 shipped. JIM

I had alook at the HobbyKing Apparition, yes, $250 shipped, need own esc ($150 pair for 2x 70 amp) and an RC (well receiver anyway....)
There isn't much price difference once it's in the water between the Apparition or the Segad ...... what is the better boat is the puzzle ?

P.S .... glad to know I'm not the only person adding resin to RTR boats .... I also put high rate expanding foam in the bow just to make the boat more rigid, doesn't seem to add weight or shift balance.

[JIM MARCUM]

Resin & glass tape on the seams always makes our FE boats stronger, veejo. It's a lot more fun than repairing seam cracks later. I disagree with Diesel6401 on hull strength. I don't know about the smaller Seagad, but it took hitting a boulder sideways at 50 MPH to crack the hull's seam on my 56" Segad. I also have ProBoat's Miss GEICO & Blackjack, and they are both weak in the hull joint seams. The Miss Geico is the best handling of three. Haven't ran the Apparition twin yet, but I've seen several videos on them including a single VS twin motor version. It was a draw in both speed & handling. I ordered the Apparition single motor version cuz it's a hell of a lot easier to work on, and with the right setup it should be a good SAW boat, that in milder tune make a good fun boat.

Using foam to reduce flex & hull strength is a great idea. Daren Jordan, the designer of the Miss GEICO for ProBoat, suggested I put two part poly urethane - in stages - in the forward part of the hull to help it stay together. That was after I hit a turtle, crashed & split the hull at the LA SAWs.

As to which boat to buy, you have a good handle on how to strenghten a hull. So buy whatever you like. It's all good. JIM

[Diesel6401]

Resin & glass tape on the seams always makes our FE boats stronger, veejo. It's a lot more fun than repairing seam cracks later. I disagree with Diesel6401 on hull strength. I don't know about the smaller Seagad, but it took hitting a boulder sideways at 50 MPH to crack the hull's seam on my 56" Segad. I also have ProBoat's Miss GEICO & Blackjack, and they are both weak in the hull joint seams. The Miss Geico is the best handling of three. Haven't ran the Apparition twin yet, but I've seen several videos on them including a single VS twin motor version. It was a draw in both speed & handling. I ordered the Apparition single motor version cuz it's a hell of a lot easier to work on, and with the right setup it should be a good SAW boat, that in milder tune make a good fun boat.

Using foam to reduce flex & hull strength is a great idea. Daren Jordan, the designer of the Miss GEICO for ProBoat, suggested I put two part poly urethane - in stages - in the forward part of the hull to help it stay together. That was after I hit a turtle, crashed & split the hull at the LA SAWs.

As to which boat to buy, you have a good handle on how to strenghten a hull. So buy whatever you like. It's all good. JIM

How do you disagree when you yourself said you don't know about the smaller verison? The 56" is a different hull completly, it's gonna need to be thicker to handle the weight of the gas engine and the pure size. It's comparing apples to oranges.

With the price and the hull for what it is, it's cheaper to build and use better equipment. The stock esc's are 60 amp seaking that most people sale for $50 or so, venom want's over $100 for them. The market up is crazy

[Hoverdown3k]

I have 3 Venom boats,
Segad Gas
EKOS C1
EKOS P1
these boat rock, the scale paint and looks are killer.. that is the reason I bought them, and Venom support is the best I have seen.

I have not added any fiberglass or taped up the hull... I had zero issues...

if you want a nice boat there are many to choose from, if you want a scale boat, painted like a real boat and based on a the same hull as a real boat your choices are less.

The Proboat Geico is a prime example, great handling but does not look like a real boat. Far too wide to be scale.

Next people will tell you the king of shaves / segad flip easy, well a lot of that is in the setup, and also, real boats slow when making a corning, something the miss geico does not have to do.

So if you enjoy, non scale looking boats, and boats you can just drive around wide open all the time, then I would look at proboat Miss Geico.

[Diesel6401]

I have 3 Venom boats,
Segad Gas
EKOS C1
EKOS P1
these boat rock, the scale paint and looks are killer.. that is the reason I bought them, and Venom support is the best I have seen.

I have not added any fiberglass or taped up the hull... I had zero issues...

if you want a nice boat there are many to choose from, if you want a scale boat, painted like a real boat and based on a the same hull as a real boat your choices are less.

The Proboat Geico is a prime example, great handling but does not look like a real boat. Far too wide to be scale.

Next people will tell you the king of shaves / segad flip easy, well a lot of that is in the setup, and also, real boats slow when making a corning, something the miss geico does not have to do.

So if you enjoy, non scale looking boats, and boats you can just drive around wide open all the time, then I would look at proboat Miss Geico.

The reason the Geico handles so good is because its not completly scaled and is wider. Pro Boat stated that's why they did it that way for better performence and it paid off, that's why the the MG and Mystic hulls race and win as much as they do! Its not that the Ekos and Segad flip easily, they run great in the straights, but can't turn worth beans because of the narrowness typically spin or roll over. Its not as much as the hull but the batts being centered and higher up. Lowering the batts in the sponsons help (that's why single motor versions handle better then twins, but its still not a good as handling as a stock MG. That's why they don't make the best race boats.

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[Hoverdown3k]

The reason the Geico handles so good is because its not completly scaled and is wider.

Hmmm, I already wrote that....

"The Proboat Geico is a prime example, great handling but does not look like a real boat. Far too wide to be scale."

If you like to race non scale looking boats that is great, I like scale looking stuff and i don't race, the same is with rc cars, the scale stuff.. well it handles and tips like a real car would,
the fantasy based cars and trucks handle much better when running wide open around the whole track.

I like to drive my models, not just go wide open the whole time..

but if you are into racing, then I would suggest building a boat from the hull up, you pick everything that way and get the best handling and speed.

[Diesel6401]

Hmmm, I already wrote that....

"The Proboat Geico is a prime example, great handling but does not look like a real boat. Far too wide to be scale."

If you like to race non scale looking boats that is great, I like scale looking stuff and i don't race, the same is with rc cars, the scale stuff.. well it handles and tips like a real car would,
the fantasy based cars and trucks handle much better when running wide open around the whole track.

I like to drive my models, not just go wide open the whole time..

but if you are into racing, then I would suggest building a boat from the hull up, you pick everything that way and get the best handling and speed.

Yea I know u just wrote that. What I'm saying is it was done on purpose for a reason. Most boaters rather it be slightly off scale but run better and it runs better much then the any of the venom hulls. They could have scaled it and it would have been a turd. Also not running a boat at wot is a good way to smoke a esc! Fine and dandy on a car, plane or heli... do it in a boat consistant enough and oneday poooooooof goes the esc

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[Hoverdown3k]

100% agree, they designed that boat as RC first, that is why the proportion are off from a real boat, but it was done this way for one reason, to handle better, 100% agree.

No one said anything about not running 100% throttle, the only time you don't is when turning or sharply turning.

Not sure I would have fun with my finger planted 100% throttle the whole time, no skill needed and that gets boring to me. Notice I said "ME" I am sure many other get a kick out of
running flat out the whole time, regardless of turning or waves.

Any ESC not running at 100% creates more heat, they have various ways to cool them. I have not had any ESC overheating issues from slowing down to turn or corner.

[Diesel6401]

No one said anything about not running 100% throttle, the only time you don't is when turning or sharply turning.

Not sure I would have fun with my finger planted 100% throttle the whole time, no skill needed and that gets boring to me. Notice I said "ME" I am sure many other get a kick out of
running flat out the whole time, regardless of turning or waves.

Any ESC not running at 100% creates more heat, they have various ways to cool them. I have not had any ESC overheating issues from slowing down to turn or corner.

I like to drive my models, not just go wide open the whole time..
.

You just confused the hell outta me. Read what u wrote. One paragraph you don't like to run 100%, next paragraph no one said anything about running 100%. Slowing down in the turns in normal and not an issue you said you go wide open the whole time. Indicating less the wide open throttle more then just in the turns. Not sure what u mean or how u drvie, I'm just saying less then wide open throttle for expended periods of the run slowing down in the turns isn't an issue or letting off at the signs of a blow over its the putting around that's kills an esc.

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[Hoverdown3k]

Very simply, I do not run wide open throttle the whole time, I slow down when I turn the boat...

From what you have typed I gather you like to run 100% throttle the whole time, meaning in turns as well.

Did not mean to confuse anyone, but that is what "I" do... I slow down when turning, so I do not run wide open the whole time.

You might only need a radio controlled on/off switch, instead of the ESC.. could save you cash too... :)..Just joking! :)

[JIM MARCUM]

You guys crack me up. In the 60s, we raced slot cars with only a thumb operated on/off click switch. No pressure= OFF, press down= 100% ON. Even back then you would lift your thumb for a nano-second - OFF - before entering the turns, then full ON in the turn & straights. Got into racing R/C offroad buggies & trucks in the late 70s and, just like full scale racing, you hit the brakes before you enter a turn to set up a drift and roll on the throttle in the turn, then 100% as you exit. That's what drifting is all about.

Full sized Offshore cat racers & FE RC cat boaters enter & exit a turn in the same way. Same thing is true with on-road & off-road cars & motorcycles. None of this is NEWS. DUH! Simple physics.

In general, if the design of a RC model boat works well, that design translates up well into full scale boats. But, when you scale down the design of a full sized boat that handles great - especially catamarans - it dosen't always translate well. When Venom first tested a scaled down prototype of the Miss GEICO it did not handle well. Among other things, it was too narrow and rolled easily. That's when Venom asked Darin Jordan to help modify the MG's design. As the designed evolved, it "resembled" the actual MG, but is not built to scale. The results speak for themselves. The FE MG is one of the best handling FE cat hulls in the Offshore P class available today.

I think both the smaller FE version and the larger converted gas versions of the Segad & King of Shaves are beautiful. The Segad in particular. While neither are built to scale, they do share the slab-sided design of the actual race boats. And, just like the full sized Segad & King of Shaves race boats, both the FE & converted gas RC versions are solid in the straights, but both roll over easily it the turns. The FE & ex-gasser hulls have a great deal of potential as SAW racers. Exactly how much potential my big Segad has will be answered at Legg Lake in October's SAWs. JIM

PS: Darin, if I have your story wrong, feel free to bitch slap me & set the record straight.

[Diesel6401]

Very simply, I do not run wide open throttle the whole time, I slow down when I turn the boat...

From what you have typed I gather you like to run 100% throttle the whole time, meaning in turns as well.

Did not mean to confuse anyone, but that is what "I" do... I slow down when turning, so I do not run wide open the whole time.

You might only need a radio controlled on/off switch, instead of the ESC.. could save you cash too... :)..Just joking! :)

I'm not trying to be mean, but are you reading what your writing and did you read my post at all. I'm not sure how you gatherd by my post that I must run full speed in the turns as well. I don't understand how you came to that assumption. I'll edit my post and highlight the area I'm talking about, this is why your making me confused.