Radio Advice

[Bill-SOCAL]

PS - ... and have Model Match so I don't use the wrong model number.

I like how my radio manufacturer doesn't think I am too dim-witted to select the right model

No worries. I have no issues about needing to "feel good". I know what is working for me and what adjustments, if any, I need to make with new equipment.

I also fly giant scale aerobatic planes and in fact many of us were covering our planes long before we even heard of 2.4. Go figure. It was almost like we knew it was a good idea before knowing why!!

[SweetAccord]

More interesting info:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=874220

Interesting statement:

Very Lucky. I have to say 2.4 Gig is meant to be our saviour from interference and glitches. I fly at a club with approx 180 members, a lot of whom have swapped to 2.4. I can not count the number of problems these guys have had with 2.4, on every style of aircraft and different brands of radio. I will stick with my JR stuff for a while, as it can not be a coincidince, the number of crashes I have seen as a result of "lockout". Best of luck with it.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl4_5zEySzA

But then here is a JR one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDn2Qp-vkKA&feature=related

[SweetAccord]

This post discussion is getting very interesting (thank you all), so questioIfn to all,

If had to chose a radio system that is not 2.4 GHz, (I think I would chose the Futaba 3PM-FS Pro 3-Channel FM Synthesized 75MHz) what system would you pick and why?

[Bill-SOCAL]

Again, you are looking at the data from installations is large aerobatic planes using 12 to 14 large digital servos under extreme loads. FE boats are perhaps the best possible place for the FASST if heat is your worry. No pipes, engines, etc. Plus run times are very low so the heat from hot packs and motors will not be a concern.

You simply cannot extrapolate the information from the 14 channel RX installed in a large plane under the canopy in the solar oven that is present in this type of plane to what you will see in an FE boat that is generally closed up and not exposed to extreme heat.

Not one single report of an issue with FASST has come from the FE world. Almost ALL the reports are from extreme environments. Big planes, hot weather, tight spaces in long runs in cars/trucks (they can run 30 minute mains) and so on.

I guess what I am saying is that you need to focus on your use rather than installations that have no bearing on your intended use. An example. In gas boats we run gas to oil mixtures of 16 to 1. In airplanes they run engines 6 times larger at ratios of 100 to 1. Different situations that have no bearing on each other.

[SweetAccord]

Thank you Bill. I know there is a difference in the application, but even in your results the values of the temperatures are pretty high for such a small device that just seems like it's pushing it's limits. I wonder how long the receiver can tolerate these temperatures as 90 degrees is nothing to shrug at for a small electronic device.

If I was able to find someone that can state they run it every day 10 times a day for 5 years then I can be more confident in it's durability, but not possible as it's only recently been released on the market. Maybe time and enough complaints Futaba may address it instead of claim it's normal?

Also I was addressed with this a few days ago by a Futaba Product Support Lead/Programming Technician; (which was a little disconcerning): "Yes, some receivers have had issues when they have become hot, whereupon they stopped operating. Electronics will tend to do this when they are overheated." This is an interesting statement as it's clarifying the unit is being overheated by another outside factor rather than it's own as your results show.

and

"We've only heard of actual heat-related problems with models on the ground that were sitting in direct sunlight in areas of the country where the outside air temperature exceeded 100 degrees F, and the radio equipment was in the model and under a large, clear canopy." This is interesting too, you need to protect the receiver from the sun or heat, but by itself it easily reaches 90º without any external assistance. I would agree it's its that sensitive in it's load design.

What was most interesting (I may have missed about 2.4 systems) is that they are really still FM?! Quote by the same Futaba technician: "PCM encoding is the most precise system. 2.4 GHz is just the frequency band it transmits on. It is still FM (PPM) modulation."

As much as I like the whole concept of what the 2.4 systems offer, a factor of 10º-12º from it's operational running temperature to make the fail safe activate is pushing it. The margin of design just seems like it's pushing it and it just seems like all that technology put into a small receiver (which is great who does not like small!) is really pushing the design limits of the technology. I also wonder if the R603FS has the same issue.

~Peace

[SweetAccord]

Well I ordered the Futaba 3PM-FS Pro 3-Channel FM Synthesized 75MHz as I could not pass up on the deal from Tower for 109.99!

Down the road when the "heat" issues go away I'll move to the 2.4 systems. Thank you all for the input!

~Peace

[AndyKunz]

Remember only 1 brand has the heat issue - it's not a "2.4 thing."

Andy

[SweetAccord]

Remember only 1 brand has the heat issue - it's not a "2.4 thing."

Andy

Correct, that has been reported or stands out so far as for the models I was interested in. The reason I said that "2.4 thing" was because Airtronics also has a 2.4 system also, among st others. I was considering the Airtronics, but I was not able to find any issues or complaints or users for that matter. But just because I can't find any issues with the Airtronics may not mean that there is not an issue, so I decided to give up on the 2.4 in general for now and that is all I meant.

So all that mat be said so far is "yes only one brand that has been reported "publicly" within different RC groups and applications that appear to have some issue. Some will agree with this while some will not, which is fine and dandy.

Maybe more searching will find more results, or even different results but I'm pooped out for now researching any more.

~Peace

[Bill-SOCAL]

And that nice chat you had with the Futaba person based on what you said it is clear he was talking about the airplane receivers. But I guess you can sit out another 4 or 5 years to make sure.

And Andy, while not wanting to get into a pi$$ing match with you I am certain that you have seen the very long and numerous threads regarding how a certain other brand of 2.4 seems to have a very poor record of reliability in boats. WOrks great in planes and cars, but seems problematic in boats. Go figure.

Oh well. One other point is that in the RXs that have had a thermal shutdown problem it has happened at reported case temps of around 150 degrees. And when it does happen the receiver goes into failsafe, you do not get a run away situation.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Just saw the FM comment. ALL radios are FM. PCM is simply a kind of FM transmission. PPM is the actual mode of transmission. 2.4 is the frequency band. You can have FM/PCM on any frequency you want. With 2.4 it is not needed so much because what PCM was good at was bad single rejection, especially internally generated noise. Research showed that almost all internally generated RF noise was at or below 300 MHz. SO 2.4 does not even see it.

FM/PPM is a little faster than FM/PCM, so 2.4 uses FM/PPM for this reason (as does everyone else). Futaba does have HRS, which is even a little faster.

Hope that helps to clear up some confusion.

[JimClark]

I for one don't know anyone who has had problems in boats with the older "other brand". I know there are threads but the vast majority seemed to be operator error and not setting the antenna up properly. In ERCU I would bet 95 percent of the club uses the "other brand of 2.4 gig" since they were introduced and no problems and at least half those boats are carbon fiber.

Jim

And Andy, while not wanting to get into a pi$$ing match with you I am certain that you have seen the very long and numerous threads regarding how a certain other brand of 2.4 seems to have a very poor record of reliability in boats. WOrks great in planes and cars, but seems problematic in boats. Go figure.

[Bill-SOCAL]

I for one don't know anyone who has had problems in boats with the older "other brand". I know there are threads but the vast majority seemed to be operator error and not setting the antenna up properly.

Jim

Honestly I think this accounts for the vast majority of radio issues across the board. My point is that almost without exception every radio brand today has had some issue or another at one time or another. People have to take the available information and make their own decisions.

My FASST systems have been flawless and I run some pretty high end stuff. I am a happy camper. Happy enough I just bought a 4PK. Loving it!!