Whos making these wire drive coupling systems?

[eXoNerated]

Hi Tyler,
Its no surprise. Alot of this stuff you have to make yourself or piece together like you have. Im looking for an old leaf spring to forge a sharp thin rudder from. The shaft is probably easiest realize by reaming an octura shaft with a 2 mm bore to 3 mm. A .130in. minimum is .127 so she is a little lose to feel good about if the wire is .125 on the nose. I'd want a tight fit instead. We will see. Does the ferrule taper all the way down to the wire or the 5mm shaft?

[eXoNerated]

50 years an still flipping. ( why do hydros flip )

http://www.h1unlimited.com/hydros-101/

"Back to the question of can a boat be designed to not flip and also be a winner? With the right stability control system, similar to what some fighter aircraft use, yes. For some classes of raceboats, these types of control systems are illegal at this time. Also, it will be very expensive to develop this type of system for a raceboat, well beyond the budget capabilities of most teams. In conclusion, a good boat design and an experienced driver are the best insurance against flipping a boat. But, so far, nobody has built a boat that will not flip."

Thank You
Hubert

PS its too bad you dont like Scale boats. With your skill set I bet youd build a very nice competitive one. Why dont you like them?

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi Tyler, Hubert,
nice tread have you here . Hubert show a boat from me , the double wing with the Neu 2215 motor. This is not a 1:8 scale , it is smaller i think 1:10 .
The shape of the plate Hubert show was not the 400 kw motor . This motor has a plate shape with lots of cut outs for liquid cooling as it has tomstay this power not only for seconds. We designed this motors for powerfull quadrocopter up to the size to lift a tank over a river or lake no need of a bridge or ship and much faster.
Tyler , for SAW i think that the middle section of your rigger is to wide. Give it a think to turn the body 90 degree so that the small side is looking to the watersurface and the airpressure at high speed has less aera to lift the body.
Hubert , have i show you the pics from the Rushian Ekranoplane for raceboat racing ? i will post them next days here. They donˋt flipp they just fly some distance belong to the propeller trust.

Happy Amps Christian

[RaceMechaniX]

Hubert,

I tried drilling stubshafts and struggled to achieve the necessary concentricity between the inner and outer diameter. Admittedly I did not have access to a precision lathe which is needed to hold tenths or better for such parts. I was able to produce about 1 in 20 good parts. Hence I was relieved to find the precision tube. As I mentioned previously Brent Byers on JRCBD has premade 1/4 stub shafts with 1/8" wire which work great, but you will need use 1/4" props or machine the stub shaft down to size. Welded 3/16" flex cable is a lot easier to manage and will work perfectly.

Hello Christian,

My rigger is fairly simple compared to most of the European designs but it works quite well. The width is driven by the side by side battery configuration especially for 10S.
My earlier designs were more streamlined, but did not run as well. The lift of the center body helped.
This was my first SAW rigger below. It was based on my nitro SAW boat which also ran well, but the geometry did not work well for FE due to the extra weight. The sponsons back then were also shared between the two.
P1040312.jpgP1040318.jpg

This is the nitro boat it's based off of.
CMB 80RS-H SAW Rigger 4.jpg828654847_dsc00312_Cropped.jpg

I also built a gas version but never ran it.

DSC_5611_resize.jpg

There are 9 revisions of my current Q/S/T hydro and I am pretty happy with it.

[eXoNerated]

I like what you do T. Christian is my best friend from Germany. I consider him my Brother. He has spent alot of his time teaching me things about the elctric motors that are not in every book. U are both genius and I am very fortunate to have you ear. Very accomplished boaters. I hope I can execute you ideas and be competitive. The goal is daunting. D-12 has very accomplished boaters with years of experience on the podiums. If I could even get close Id be happy personally. Im not a hater and know the current record holder runs faster than his record shows. No ones a fool. Hes here too.

Regards
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

@ Christian
Tyler has alot of power from Hans but if you look at jorgs rigger its wider an longer. If I was tyler id streamline the sponsons and add rake to the hull. If he takes heed to the sponson paper and could get access to the REAL batteries he'd have a real chance. Dont let my German brother fool you T we not getting access to the exact batteries. Christian hold several patents in fuel cell technology. he know quite a bit about batteries and holds for Germany. How could he have too much lift and Jorg hull has a wing profile Chris? Jorg is flying the boat on just the prop. The rear is just like the T4.


LOL!!!!
Love
Hubert

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi Tyler and Hubert,
hey buddy i know Tyler when he visite Munich SAW . i have the highest respect for his worke. He is the one and only competitor who can beat the records and he has done it , you know.
@Tyler,
ok , this boats are much narrow than i had in mind and also the postion of the sponson is what i like. The very forward position of the JAGs sponson need very forward placed waight , not easy to do and to start. For true spnoson are small wing in groundeffect ships and ad lift at such speed and i think better closer to c.g. .

Happy Amps Christian

[eXoNerated]

VVVVVVVVV


Regards
Hubert.

[eXoNerated]

Hi Tyler and Hubert,
hey buddy i know Tyler when he visite Munich SAW . i have the highest respect for his worke. He is the one and only competitor who can beat the records and he has done it , you know.
@Tyler,
ok , this boats are much narrow than i had in mind and also the postion of the sponson is what i like. The very forward position of the JAGs sponson need very forward placed waight , not easy to do and to start. For true spnoson are small wing in groundeffect ships and ad lift at such speed and i think better closer to c.g. .

Happy Amps Christian

Yes Christian I know you know him and he's been there but the world record holders boats tub still has a wing profile and it isnt that narrow. Thats what we are talking about. The boat has alot of rake like a drag bike. Don't need to be in Germany for my eye to work. And still there is no real access to the cells hes using. Tyler consider the custom bridge he has that can carry alot of amps. That's what its really about. The delivery of power. The boats length also seems to approach our length limit. Its at least 3 people wide as they sit there holding it in their hands. Its still a competition Christian and certainly you want to keep the crown there. We certainly want to take it back.


Regards
Hubert.

[eXoNerated]

Hi Tyler,
I have in my mind the general data you provided. It doesnt fit though because Jorg is pulling over 24kW at a launch. Christian knows full power comes at half the unloaded rpm. BIG AMPS PLAY THERE and Jorg is pulling 800 plus amps x 6s packs that will deliver double that. Lehner rates their motors in a different way so there really is no direct comparison. Their KV is loaded. It is the kv taken at the engines maximum efficiency point if Im not mistaken so that's very different from how we rate our best motor here. If my calculations are correct it took in excess of 5 newton meters of torque to accomplish this that Jorg boats does. Try a larger controller with more pitch. The disadvantage is the inverters sink capacity. Chris, not Christian has had a boat with equally good aerodynamics as Jorg in my opinion but this type of power displayed was never there in the controller or the motor. And still a 1530 is not matched to a 2280 but a 2260 instead. The fastest boat in the world is a 6s boat. Amps make the world go around. I doubt his record will ever be taken with an off the shelf controller because the inverters are too large in physical size. A few more caps or a supercap at a lower voltage craft might give you some punch. Thats the whole truth. Build a 1000 amp bridge with logic from a BL Heli esc with 32 bit FW that will fit in your boat. U might borrow a flight controller card as well. With gyro an self stabilizing algorithms it may be very useful in active surfaces. They you can truly fly the boat, with the right attitude. Ultimately the controller doesnt need to be sophisticated with a two pole motor it just needs to handle amps.

Traktionsbruder,
Hubert

[NativePaul]

Power is key, you could say that power makes the world go round. It makes little difference whether you get that power form voltage or ampage, but our gear has limitations on ampage so the more voltage we use the more power is available to us.

Jorg has the outright RC water speed record with his L8 (8s) class rigger, he doesn't run an L6.

Fellow JAGs team member Arne holds the L6 (6s) class speed record using a hull from the same molds, built by the same people, with the same hardware and similar electrics, its record is 13kph slower than the L8 record, and its fastest pass is 27kph slower than the L8 fastest pass.

[eXoNerated]

Id have to disagree as torque is what turns things. Plus that voltage is ultimately limited to 10S so to go faster has to come from amperage The point is 10s isnt the fastest boat in the world so if voltage is truly the way to the highest speed something happened. When you want to turn an increasingly large load no matter at what voltage the amperage has to go up. No matter what we debate here 24kW is what the man pulls and you cant run but 10s so the math is very simple u see. You wont beat him with less aerodynamics a heavier boat and half his power. If it can be done It will be amazing to behold. Even at 8s you will have to generate a few Nm's to turn 90000 rpm at 24kW. The 'torque' in a BLDC machine comes from the amperate draw. I get freewheeling but the voltage truly only goes in one direction...Down. You see the 1s motor make the same power through amperage thus at it dc resitance it can hold over 700 amperes. SAW people cant be restricted to a shelf and win into the future. Jorg is not and he has the fastest boat. The aerodynamics are nice but as Ive said there has been others with very good aero and simply not the power. It certainly seems to me looking at both boats that Jorgs wing profile tub and rear end like a T4 def creates lift and Tylers seems more nuetral to me. His nose is fairly symetrical from top to bottom. His sponsons have relatively flat tops etc. Christian and I dont have the same eyes so we dont see things the same way always. Maybe my brother is right but I see what I see in the profile of Jorgs hull as compared to T's. Jorg has a pupose buit inverter that can deliver the torque to accomplish the job @ 8S. Tyler has no more voltage at his disposal. It isnt magic.

Regards
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

What Tyler shoul be provided more that anything is a support team like Jorg has there. U see all these contributors to this world record boat? Thats the key. If he can work with the US company and truly find an select the same quality cells etc. It can happen. Look at Lehners friend with battery patents helping with batteries and such. Tyler needs that same support if hes to represent the bodies here.

@ Tyler ive been looking at the small jump box cell tech as they are 12 volts per pack and deliver over 1000 CCA's I wont waste my time chasing dreams to get his exact cells. It wont happen unless someone there just decides to give you a gift. There is one man that can do this. Ive asked severeal times and there is no answer so Ive forgotten about that as a viable path to good chemistry. Im trying hard to locate Ivaylo Goronov (spec). Its good to have more than one friend. They will be friendly but honestly they have zero intention of helping you retake the world record make no bones about it. If it is up to them they will set it so far out it would be years if ever it was recaptured.

Regards,
Hubert

[RaceMechaniX]

Hello Hubert,

In full disclosure I am omitting details and data from you that do not paint the full picture of my setup nor of team JAG. I know Joerg, Arne and Gunnar quite well and we exchange details on each others setups regularly, but also treat the designs and data as competitive know how that we do not freely share. The obvious reason is the competitive nature of SAW racing, but the less visible one is safety. We are speaking of 100+mph water darts that can seriously damage property and worse yet harm people. There have been a number of close calls both on the water and on the bench. I was a bit more cavalier in past when it came to safety, but now it's paramount.

The big differences in speed came with technology steps. Joerg, Arne and Gunnar bumped their own record several times over the course of several years from just cracking 100mph to 140mph. They did all this with round cells, but basically the same motor, controller and prop. I chased their record for 4-5 years and it was the combination of motor, controller and most importantly lipo batteries which helped me reach the 143mph mark. Team JAG dusted off the 2004 record setting boat and fitted it with lipos and easily ran 163mph I believe. Since then the team has pushed to find the weak link in the designs and develop those individual aspects like the batteries, controllers and props. Now tipping 200mph they are finding new challenges.

My goal is no longer to try and challenge their 200mph overall record, but continually push my design to newer speeds. Perhaps someday I will go after the ultimate speed record, but it's going to take a step in technology to allow it. Today I enjoy the lakeside camaraderie of SAW racing as much as setting new records. SAW racers are a very small niche group and generally are very willing to share tips, but divulging the secret recipe is not in our general spirit. I will add I have been supported much like Joerg, Arne and Gunnar from the US side. I was very fortunate to be apprenticed by the Grims, Brian Buass, Don Maher, Herny Velasco and others. Without these guys showing me the ropes I would still be chasing 100mph. Today Joerg offers quite a bit of support to me and others, but we also want the self accomplishment of not copying what he has done, but trying new set-ups too.

-Tyler

[eXoNerated]

Oh I wouldnt do that. But I already know through other sources the power levels and rpm seen. And they are far from the power number provided. U see I already knew the number couldnt be right but its all good. Secrets are fine. I dont worry about it because information is useless in the wrong hands anyway.From nearly 4 years ago I have direct line of communication to Gunnar as well. I guess in the future someone will have to pick up the chase. Mine is Scale , S & T sport hydro and it wont stop anytime soon.

From me there are no real secrets. The current can know generally whats coming. Popping the hood is no issue. The hull will be a scratchbuilt balsa/carbon fiber laminate with the active canard and modification to the aerofoil section. As I progress with the build I have no problems posting it for full dissection. It's just a model boat. Nothings more fun than sharing for me. If you have to copy a person to beat them they still won actually.

1989-90_U-10_Winston_Eagle_Hull_8910_10_.jpg



TTYL
Hubert