Local clubs.......P limited question

[Darin Jordan]

I'm not sure why you guys aren't putting a list or two together of motors to consider.

Build one, post it, talk about it, and try it.

You are NOT going to be able to simple state acceptable specs. You need to LIST the motors that are and are NOT allowed.

That will avoid the problem of guys like Peterson spending their Limo money on better quality motors that fit the "specs"...

It's NOT really brain surgery.

As for the Nationals... It has to be handled locally first...

Our club has already allowed some "other" than approved motors this season in a couple of boats. Proved to be OK... They were motors that came IN the boats in RTR trim, just not an AQ or PB...

It's CLUB racing, after all... no need to get all wound up about it.

[T.S.Davis]

Do we have people standing in a line with $$$ in their hands asking what to buy?

Standing in line might be a stretch but yes. I'm asked all the time. We do have 3 new guys in the club. 2 started racing in the last two months. Those 2 are completely hooked. They're thinking about next season. "What should I get for spring?" One guy I'm selling one of my boats. If they buy Proboat with the new motors that aren't in the book we should still let him race. Okay. Getting them on the pond matters. I get it. What if the motors turn out to be stellar? Stock Revolt guy is okay with that? What if I run a new motor in my highly modified Mystic and it rocks? Stock Lucas guy is happy?

Locally we don't have a problem yet I suppose. National should be aligning itself with what happens locally (multiple locals) if it wants sustained numbers. I think that's why I keep swilling them together.

Sorry Doug, but IMPBA missed the boat (pun) on limited entirely. Limited resulted in an influx of FE racers to organized racing. IMPBA enjoyed little of it. They haven't had a national FE event in eons. 2008 was the last one I attended. Limited was a good way to catch a guys attention for little dough. He got to run against national caliber racers and be in the ball park. Once your hooked your hooked. Worth its weight in doughnuts.

[T.S.Davis]

! Apparently I have exceeded it's specifications.

You were only supposed to run two laps and then check temps. Dang it Doug! Probably put too much shoe on it.

[Chilli]

Our district runs a Novice and RTR class for newbies to cut their teeth on. Rules are loose. This this allows them to get their feet wet while giving them time to decide what classes they might want to pursue down the road. If their RTR's fit within our P-Limited rules, they can run that class also.

[JackBlack26]

I wonder what they are selling for a motor in the Blackjack 29 and the Impulse 31?

Edit: Just noticed Darren posted pictures.

Dynamite released a 6 pole 2000kv motor and a 120A ESC that I would assume is what they will using in what ever the revisions of those boats are. They have a 2000kv 4 pole but I think that might be for the smaller BL boats with ABS hulls.

[ray schrauwen]

When it comes to PB I find the relationship with Dynamite odd. Is this a subsidiary company to Proboat or a separate company? The BJ29's being sold still have the 1800Kv motor's in them. The BJ29's are now being cleared out for the new batch of stuff to come in.

If Dynamite is a separate company then it seems fine to add other motors to a list of what is acceptable for spec. I don't really care though, got enough spec motors to last a while as long as I don't overwork them

[longballlumber]

Standing in line might be a stretch but yes. I'm asked all the time. We do have 3 new guys in the club. 2 started racing in the last two months. Those 2 are completely hooked. They're thinking about next season. "What should I get for spring?" One guy I'm selling one of my boats. If they buy Proboat with the new motors that aren't in the book we should still let him race. Okay. Getting them on the pond matters. I get it. What if the motors turn out to be stellar? Stock Revolt guy is okay with that? What if I run a new motor in my highly modified Mystic and it rocks? Stock Lucas guy is happy?

Locally we don't have a problem yet I suppose. National should be aligning itself with what happens locally (multiple locals) if it wants sustained numbers. I think that's why I keep swilling them together.

Assuming the priority is getting people to the pond AND participating in organized racing, the more experienced members in the club need to put their collective minds together, while putting their personal agendas to the side and make some proposals for 2015 season that MAKE SENSE. This, in my eyes, makes it easy to "approve" the use of the new proboat motor/controller. The system comes in a boat that you can go to the LHS, buy the RTR boat, come out to the pond, and be allowed to race (if they choose). This starts getting difficult when you start approving "stuff" that isn't EASILY accessible (AKA... hobbyshop, towerhobbies) think "one stop shop".

About the new PB motors being "better". I seem to recall this happening early in the life of P-Limited. I would estimate that more than 80% of the racers were running AQ motors EVEN WHEN the PB motor were readily available. How many guys were taking the PB motors out of their Geicos/mystics and replacing with AQ motors? What I am trying to say is, RACERS are going to buy whatever it takes to make them FEEL competitive.

No one likes change, but change is necessary when technology is evolving like these FE products are. What we need to be careful of is the "floor is fall from under us" mentality. Do we need more choices? - YES BUT, not at the risk of alienating potential newcomers. This, of course, in the context of our local club.

Peterson's solution has a much different path, because he is trying to satisfy a different audience. I get it and understand.

I am rambling again...

SEACREST OUT!

Later,
Ball

[T.S.Davis]

I am rambling again...

Oh good, we're on the same page.

Think of this thread more as research. My original question was where to point the new dude......ish. Consensus seems to be Lucas at the moment.

Our club will look to the experienced guys for some guidance/insight. There is more than one path. Not sure I want to go down Petersons path. No offense to Doug. It's going to work for his target audience. He doesn't have an existing tribe of racers who would have to replace fleets worth of motors. That would not be well received by our gang. Some of our guys wince at the prospect of buying a single motor. Plus no new guys that are just curious. "I have to buy a new motor just to race? Oh, the heck with it."

I don't want to ignore what got us here but I don't want to ignore reality either. It's going to take a little finesse I think.

[T.S.Davis]

It's NOT really brain surgery.

No it isn't. It's wallet surgery. Who's gonna do it? Who has the time, resources, and technical skills required? Each of those is useless without the other two.

[Darin Jordan]

When it comes to PB I find the relationship with Dynamite odd. Is this a subsidiary company to Proboat or a separate company?

OK, to clear up your conundrum...

HORIZON HOBBY owns:

=> Pro Boat
=> Dynamite
=> LOSI
=> BLADE
=> ParkZone
=> EFlight
=> ...

They all fall under the Horizon Hobby banner, so it shouldn't be a surprise that Pro Boat runs Dynamite branded motors, which are sourced from who knows where...

The original source for the Dynamite Marine line of motors was getting too expensive, hence, the boats were getting too expensive. SO, Dynamite decided to shop for a different manufacturer for their motors. They also decided to reduce inventory by carrying a single KV, rather than two or potentially three KVs for their 4S boats.

So, what you have is old stock being pushed out the door, making room for ????

Clear??

[DPeterson]

Darrin

I'm not sure why you guys aren't putting a list or two together of motors to consider.

Pretty sure IMPBA D4 will have a revised list of approved motors for P-Limited in 2015. Pretty sure we will also differentiate between RTR classes and P-Limited classes.

Terry

Sorry Doug, but IMPBA missed the boat (pun) on limited entirely.

Highly debatable comment. It took some ugly communications between some of us IMPBA Midwest guy's and the guy's out east, but the best thing that came from it was to hold off any National P-Limited rules. We are currently not stuck with the AQ2030.

Glad to read where the east coast is looking at the rtr class being different than P-limited. Or even just going straight P with an approved motor list. We are on the same page.

As for IMPBA not having a Nationals - this holds no water in defining the quality or performance of either association. It would not surprise me to hear about a large scale electric race being discussed for the future in IMPBA. And if I am involved it will be less - classes, more heats. You know less filling - more taste.

Good luck with your rtr's. Doug

[Darin Jordan]

Good luck with your rtr's. Doug

An attitude like that, Doug, would drive over 1/2 our club members out of racing. Maybe more.

If everyone involved is required to build a custom, top-of-the-line boat to be competitive in a "Limited" class, then they won't.

Proof is on the water... It's why P-LTD is popular, and P-Open not as much...

In fact, I would argue that P-OPEN may not even make the cut at many races, if not for P-LTD guys running their boats there.

Either way, I think you should have a more inclusive attitude. You're cutting of your nose to spite your, well... you know...

[DPeterson]

What are you talking about Darrin?

[HangTheMan]

As probably the greenest newbie here, I would like to present my experience. I am new to boats (RC in general for that matter). I find it fun and am hooked on these boats. I was interested in getting involved with racing. To be honest, all this talk about class and boats and approved list of specific boats/motors has turned me away. I really want to join in on the racing fun, but find it too confusing. Especially when it came to finding a boat that I could run with folks. It would be awesome if There was an open entry class just for folks like me who have absolutely no idea what I am doing. I want to learn, but at the same time find it hard for several reasons already mentioned here. First it is not easy to find a good boat that is readily available so I can join in. I ultimately ended up with 5 boats in my quest thus far some of which I purchased before I knew (or thought I knew) what the rules were. I ultimate ended up with a Pursuit, Genesis, AQ Lucas Oil, Geico and Revolt as my FE group. Given that only a few of those are permitted as I understand in the P-Limited class. The other biggest challenge for me was the concern that I would hinder other more experience racers or worse damage their nice boats in the process. I don't care what happens to my boat, but I would just feel horrible if I were to cause damage to another racers boat.

Anyways, long story short, I ended purchase a few more boats for my little boy and we end up racing each other on our lake.

[ray schrauwen]

Yes Darin very clear and MUCH appreciated as I am saving a few bucks for what is possibly coming. I'm excited! Thank you!

OK, to clear up your conundrum...

HORIZON HOBBY owns:

=> Pro Boat
=> Dynamite
=> LOSI
=> BLADE
=> ParkZone
=> EFlight
=> ...

They all fall under the Horizon Hobby banner, so it shouldn't be a surprise that Pro Boat runs Dynamite branded motors, which are sourced from who knows where...

The original source for the Dynamite Marine line of motors was getting too expensive, hence, the boats were getting too expensive. SO, Dynamite decided to shop for a different manufacturer for their motors. They also decided to reduce inventory by carrying a single KV, rather than two or potentially three KVs for their 4S boats.

So, what you have is old stock being pushed out the door, making room for ????

Clear??