brushless conversion on "miss vegas" hydroplane

[Genettico]

What Mono hull are you talking about exactly? Hard to imagine than a heavier MONO can run faster than a lighter HYDRO of same proportions if everything else is the same ... (not des-believing)
My prop wasnt that big either(like yours)... mine was only a y535 (35mm) It only goes to show that it's what's on the inside and the prop size/pitch that matters! You use Neu I use Feigao!(thats a Bugatti vs Toyota) I guess some people just wanna have water rockets
If 50s is not your cup of tea so then DO reconsider the MV Hull! Its just too heavy to move falster without sacrificing something else!
Give me a NEU 1515 1.5d, a bigger prop to slow it down and a 240 hydra to handle it and the hull should HAUL some major A@@! but not without the overheating issues and possible blowing of something...
I guess if you are looking for all around speed and not just playing around, I can understand why you think its not worth the time nor money to put on this HULL! If I want true speed I would Get or make a Rigger and blast into 70s or 80s! with the setups we have on the Miss Vegas! Just a matter of picking the right motor/prop combo!

I love the looks of mine and would not change it for a faster boat! Im happy with its speed..... then again I dont race it and dont wanna brake any speed records other than my own...

Keep me posted on how your setup runs... Post some vids and pics that would be cool!

Boat on,

Genettico

[RYDEFAB]

this might sound like a dumb question, but if i we're to run a bigger prop.........will it go faster or slower? i know it's a newbie question, but hence my post count. what other issue's will i run into with a bigger/smaller prop? what about 2 fin vs 3 fin? thanks in advanced.

[Ub Hauled]

depending on your setup you'll go faster (if underproped) and it can go slower and overheat, even burn things up if you have a setup that is already marginally running with the prop size you have. 2 or 3 blades are a tougher question to answer, but it's safe to say that a 2 blade will usually be easier on your system then a 3 or more blade prop.

[RYDEFAB]

depending on your setup you'll go faster (if underproped) and it can go slower and overheat, even burn things up if you have a setup that is already marginally running with the prop size you have. 2 or 3 blades are a tougher question to answer, but it's safe to say that a 2 blade will usually be easier on your system then a 3 or more blade prop.

correct me if i'm wrong.............if i run a smaller prop than the one that i'm running now, i'll go faster but i'll be running hottter........right? i figured that if i'm running too big of a prop size, i'll be running hotter. pardon me, but i'm alittle confused right now................probably too much sun and too much r/c's. thanks though for your help.

[Jeepers]

What Mono hull are you talking about exactly? Hard to imagine than a heavier MONO can run faster than a lighter HYDRO of same proportions if everything else is the same ... (not des-believing)
My prop wasnt that big either(like yours)... mine was only a y535 (35mm) It only goes to show that it's what's on the inside and the prop size/pitch that matters! You use Neu I use Feigao!(thats a Bugatti vs Toyota) I guess some people just wanna have water rockets
If 50s is not your cup of tea so then DO reconsider the MV Hull! Its just too heavy to move falster without sacrificing something else!
Give me a NEU 1515 1.5d, a bigger prop to slow it down and a 240 hydra to handle it and the hull should HAUL some major A@@! but not without the overheating issues and possible blowing of something...
I guess if you are looking for all around speed and not just playing around, I can understand why you think its not worth the time nor money to put on this HULL! If I want true speed I would Get or make a Rigger and blast into 70s or 80s! with the setups we have on the Miss Vegas! Just a matter of picking the right motor/prop combo!

I love the looks of mine and would not change it for a faster boat! Im happy with its speed..... then again I dont race it and dont wanna brake any speed records other than my own...

Keep me posted on how your setup runs... Post some vids and pics that would be cool!

Boat on,

Genettico

Geneticco I do reconsider the MV hull for speed that is why I have race boats (12 for that matter) all I am saying is for the amount of power that has been put into this hull, it is an under performer (to me) somethings not right on it. Scroll back through this thread and look at one of many mods I plan on makin to the bottom of this hull.

I am glad your happy with yours it is an awesome looking boat, The MV is one of my favorite looking boats as well.

UB HAULED has more power(his is a true Bugatti) in his than I do and he was very unhappy with the speed as well. actually compared it slower than his Sv27 powered hydro on the same voltage............

[Ub Hauled]

correct me if i'm wrong.............if i run a smaller prop than the one that i'm running now, i'll go faster but i'll be running hottter........right? i figured that if i'm running too big of a prop size, i'll be running hotter. pardon me, but i'm alittle confused right now................probably too much sun and too much r/c's. thanks though for your help.

TOO OF A BIG PROP = HEAT
TOO SMALL OF A PROP = NO SPEED

Fina a happy medium between prop size and heat (under 130F)

[Ub Hauled]

Like Jeepers is saying...
I am yet to find the sweet spot on my setup.
I run 4s1p (NEU 4900)
M440
NEU 1521/1D
Hydra 240

I think my CG is off for starters... also, I am taking in a bit of water... I am yet to find out
where da hell it is coming from!

[Genettico]

I guess I should mention that even if you have the perfect equipment/setup for a specific boat, but you dont know how to set it up right then the boat is gonna "under-perform"! His setup should run 60s and low 70s no problem, so I guess is maybe the way he has the boat setup and perhaps the prop for the motor size! As Ubhauled said his cg is off! If it is off its gonna drag or shoot the boat to the skies! with the right prop and the boat "tuned" right his and your Hull should be faster than what it is! (im assuming he is not seeing 50s or 60s! His motor choice is too high on KV for 4s2p.This puts the rpms at over 46000rpms at no load!

An SV27 is NOT a Hydro boat but a V-hull (deep V).... and yes! if you put the same setup on a MV and move it to a SV27 the latter is gonna be faster because the SV27 is LIGHTER than the MV! If you have 2 setups the same way and everything dialed the same way on 2 MV, but one MV is faster than the other one so then it's probably a matter of enviromental conditions (heat/elevation/wind/water) and maybe like Antronx... he should be faster than mine on 22v but the weight of his batts make the difference!

I hope you are not taking anything of what Im saying as an attack! This is nothing more than an informative thread! It just seems to me that the way people are setting the conversions is the deciding factor on how fast is gonna run! I dont claim my setup is the best... Im sure someone out there has picked a better combo and has much better results than me! I did however played with MANY combinations and learned that the boat peaks at about mid 60s maybe 70s! I DID NOT use NEU motors but if someone outhere has the means I wanna see the MV running on a 1515 1y or even a 1.5d on 4s2p with the right prop! This combo should yield some awesome speeds!

I know If I put a bigger prop on my setup I see 50's no problem but not without draining the batts and overheating motor pretty soon! So I stay where I am!

Genettico

MV hull like HIGH rpm motors! I would not put anything under 2000kv motor on it! It just sags at take off and doesnt perform as well!

I like this thread... some good info in here!

[AntronX]

Amount of battery cells in series (4S or 6S) is not the only deciding factor in boat's speed. So when you say that the boat is running too slow for this many cells, you have too look at the Kv of the motor. You can't compare boats by amount of cells alone. What kind of motor winding configuration? How many amps at full speed? What is the power draw in Watts for given speed?

The reason i went with low Kv motor, is so i could run more cells in series to get high power output with less amps. Less amps means less heat in the batteries, wires, connectors, battery leads, power FETs, and maybe even in the motor (not sure on this one). Added benefit to this is more battery reserve capacity. More Watt/Hours. But negative side is more weight. In the case with Miss Vegas hull, more weight in the front seems to help with keeping the boat stable in rough water. And it causes more water splashes on the turns. That makes it more fun for me.

I am doing some minor changes to my MV right now, and building better, lower resistance battery pack for it using brand new A123 cells. I will post updates this week.

[Genettico]

Amount of battery cells in series (4S or 6S) is not the only deciding factor in boat's speed. So when you say that the boat is running too slow for this many cells, you have too look at the Kv of the motor. You can't compare boats by amount of cells alone. What kind of motor winding configuration? How many amps at full speed? What is the power draw in Watts for given speed?

The reason i went with low Kv motor, is so i could run more cells in series to get high power output with less amps. Less amps means less heat in the batteries, wires, connectors, battery leads, power FETs, and maybe even in the motor (not sure on this one). Added benefit to this is more battery reserve capacity. More Watt/Hours. But negative side is more weight. In the case with Miss Vegas hull, more weight in the front seems to help with keeping the boat stable in rough water. And it causes more water splashes on the turns. That makes it more fun for me.

I am doing some minor changes to my MV right now, and building better, lower resistance battery pack for it using brand new A123 cells. I will post updates this week.

I didnt say the batteries were the only deciding factor on the speed of the hull!! Didnt you read anything I have posted??lol! The only mention I did in relation to the batteries is the weight issues that arise because of the usage of 4s compared to 6s, the type of battery and the MAH of it! What I meant to say is that If you have 2 setups the same way, and then lets say mine runs with 12cells 4000mah nimh (about the same voltage as 4s) (this is just an example) but yours runs with 4s 4000mah lipos (which are much lighter) your boat will run faster than mine! In the same token, if we both have the same setup and one of them runs with 3000mah lipos and one 8000mah (same brand lipos same c rating), the one with the 3000mah will be faster because the batts are lighter. Of course the 3000mah batts will run hotter and this is IF they have the "juice" to even move the hull! This second example is limited to a point, because sometimes you can run heavier mah lipo batts and the extra MAH difference is enough to be able to supply MORE power to the motor and overcompensate the weight difference in between the lighter mah batts and the heavier more mah batts! This is not even factoring the difference in between voltage and mah! To finalize this example and what I meant to say:
If I run my SV27 with 12cells (about 15v) 4200mah nimh (weight 440grams each ) with a CF45mm prop, the boat will barely even move. When I switch to 14cells (about 18v) 3600mah nimh (weight 492grams each) on the same setup the boat takes off like a rocket!
Why? because the extra voltage on 14cells is giving more power to motor to compensate for the little bit of extra weight of the batts thus making the boat faster!
This is NOT considering difference in motor's KV torque and the infinite combinations like high voltage low kv! Low voltage high KV! you chose right and everything you said is correct and YES the motor's life and efficency is better when you run high voltage lower KV like in your setup. I chose LOW voltage high KV because the boat was sluggish and took off too slow for me on high v low kv. I had BOTH setups running about the same rpms and loads yet the one on high voltage ran slower... why? there are way too many parameters to factor into this answer!Bottom line is I did not want to run 6s on a hydra 120 and opted for the low voltage high KV option. YOUR setup should run cooler and more efficiently than mine, but then again to a point, because of the weight of the batts you are running, this is hurting the peak performance you can get of your setup! If you were to go LIPOS as you said before, your setup WILL be running at its capacity since lipos are lighter and the motor wont have to over-work to compensate for the weight of the heavier batts at the same voltage.
for the misunderstanding if such!

genettico

[AntronX]

My comment was not directed at you, Genettico I just threw my thoughts out there.

[AntronX]

Hello everyone!
I just finished the "Waterproof Electronics Box 1.0" for my MV.



It holds the following: ESC, receiver, BEC, data logger and LCD panel.



Note the placement of temp sensor. I placed it directly above one of the power FET's, with a little of thermal paste. The sensor is underneath the ESC's shrink wrap. This gives me immediate temperature readings. I could not fit Castle's Hydra 240 in this box, due to difficulty of soldering output wires together while keeping them 1 inch long. So i took off one power board (240 has 2) and turned it into Hydra 120. I am not sure if it's safe to do this, but it works so far. I have to add, that i noticed slightly less speed with this setup. It makes sense, because i have just doubled the resistance of this ESC. I think once i find bigger box, i will put it back the way it was.



Due to very little space in the box, i had to take off the plastic case from the receiver and just shrink wrap it. This is Futaba 2.4Ghz receiver.



And here is the A123 pack i've been using for so long. I got some clear shrink wrap for it. The ends are sealed off with silicone sealant. I am building another pack like this with new A123 cells and better copper interconnects.

More pics here: http://antronx.com/boat4/

Here is the data:

Open circuit Volts = 23.35 V
Full load Amps = 81.52 A (peak)
Full load Volts = 20.08 V
Full load Watts = 1637 W (peak)
mAH used = 3900 mAh (approximate)
Temp. sensor = 140 F (60 C) (after full run)

Prop: M440
Motor: Neu 1515 1.5Y 1500Kv
ESC: hydra 120 (see above)
Batts: 7S2P A123 cells.

[RYDEFAB]

just picked up a BK electronics "warrior" 7xl brushless motor and brushless esc today. man the motor is BIG!! looks like i'm going to have to make another motor mount though. i also made a aluminum water jacket for my motors on my friends lathe this week. seems to fit pretty good on the motor, but now the motor with the jacket won't fit on the mount i made the first time. so it looks like i'm gonna be alittle busy this weekend fabbing up some stuff. oh yeah, also making a water cooled heat sink for the esc to control the heating. i want to run 4s lipos on it and sometimes 6s when i want some speed. hopefully this combo works out like i think it should. i'll post up some pics of the progress.

[RYDEFAB]

got it done!!!!! i'll post some pics later when i'm done downloading it in photobucket. from the sound of the motor on 6s, i'm in for a "hairy" ride!!!

[RYDEFAB]

here's some pics of the finished "upgrade">>>>>>>>>>>>>> took the BK brushless esc apart and added 2 watercooled heat sinks i made out of 1/4" aluminum flat bar. drilled it out to accept the tubing for the fuel line. i used epoxy to waterproof the esc by covering it in all the places that aren't protected. made a water jacket out of 1/12" ID aluminum pipe, used my friends lathe to cut grooves for the o-rings and tapped it to accept the fittings. running now a BK 7XL brushless motor on (2) Venom 5400 Mah 3s lipos to make it a 6s system. gonna take it out for a test run tomorrow.................i'll post up the results. here's some pics, thanks.