Restrictor Plate racing

[Darin Jordan]

Can no one anser why PB cannot make another motor to compete?

I could answer the question, very clearly, concisely, and with some authority, but you've already made it clear what you think of my input...

Give it some thought... perhaps you'll figure it out on your own. The answer(s) are pretty obvious...

[Diegoboy]

What a thread...

[Jeff]

I could answer the question, very clearly, concisely, and with some authority, but you've already made it clear what you think of my input...

Give it some thought... perhaps you'll figure it out on your own. The answer(s) are pretty obvious...

You would rather be on the behind the scenes rules comitee? Oh wait you were and now you want PB esc to be added to the rule of only legal one to use instead of making a 2000k range motor and compete fairly like roar does?

[raptor347]

Jeff,
Apparently you've never heard any of the ugliness that comes out of the ROAR rules stuff. At least select manufacturers aren't the ones writing the rules for us. All our rules were voted on by the racers, at least they had the opportunity to vote. You're wasting your conspiracy theory efforts on this topic, there's no secret agenda here.

All these motors (the Himaxx is identical to the PB 1500kV motor) were built to power the RTR offerings from PB and AC. They aren't building parts specifically for the very small racing population. It just works out that we can use these motors for a pretty good racing class. If it makes good business sense for them to build a specific motor, then it happens. That's the same reason AC offers the limited range of GrimRacer batteries, they support the AC product line. Luckily they suit most of the classes I run.

As far as prop work goes, I teach any of the locals that are interested in learning. It's one of those things that's best taught in person. If they decide that it's too much effort (happens way too often), that's up to them. What I won't do is prep props for people for sale, nobody wants to pay for the time it takes to do it right. Prop Ninja's, I like it, there's definitely a sticker coming for the prop ninja team.

I've played with most areas of modeling: airplanes, cars, boats, control line, free flight, R/C, gas, nitro, electric, unpowered. I still fly and I'll go race cars with friends. My favorite game is boats. It's one of the few areas left in the hobby where you get to tinker and make things from scratch. It hasn't become a buy and float game. I don't race the box stock classes, not because I can't compete, but because I find it boring and I have other classes I prefer. I stopped pylon racing when it became a buy and fly game (guess what, it didn't help pylon racing either), 190mph and boring. The day all the tinkering and thought gets taken out of heat racing I'll be doing something else (I think there are people who would like me to go away as it is). I'll always have 2-lap and SAWs to keep my mind busy. Maybe electric U/C speed is next?

People wonder why I'm building nitro boats. It's the difference in mindset. You can spend all you want, if it isn't setup right it won't leave the beach. You can't buy your way to performance, you have to think and test your way to it.

FE is a little different. You can buy your way to about 80% of the performance potential. After that it takes work.

You get two types of people that start racing FE.
-The first is the type that comes in and get's beat but sees it as a challenge. They generally put some effort into it and progressively get more competitive. Getting the experience and knowledge takes time, you don't pick up 20 years worth between 2 weekends and these guys know that. I'll help these guys with anything I can. I want them around. I want them to get good enough to beat me.
-The second type gets beat and says that's not fair, we need to slow the fast guys down because they have an unfair advantage (experience, effort, natural talent etc). My opinion is that whiners should never be rewarded (enough of that goes on in the real world). These are the guys who are unwilling to put forth the effort to develop the skills required to be competitive.

The fast guys weren't born fast (well DT Jr. and Chris Grim may be the exceptions to that, and Robert Wimmer was a better pylon racer at 17 than I ever had hope of being). We all started at slow and worked our way up.

I suppose that I should just give up and realize that the hobby is going the same direction as the real world, teach and cater to the lowest common denominator. We wouldn't want anyone to get their feeling hurt because someone was better than they were . Guess what, good results take effort and it doesn't matter what the subject is and sometimes even your best effort isn't enough. Fast toy boats, good job, good education, raising good kids, good relationship with your spouse, all take work and effort and some level of commitment.

So, here's another question if the whole point of P-ltd is to attract new racers: Should guys like me, Darin, Newland, DT Jr., Tyler Garard, Terry, DP, Tony Heller, Randy, Wilmer etc be running P-ltd at all (that's not an exhaustive list of the fast guys that should be banned, just the names that came to mind)?

[TheShaughnessy]

I'm personally really excited to put my set up against the top in the country. Win or lose ill be back for the next one. One thing Tony always tells me is that he went three years before he even finished a heat. But you won't hear him complain , or at least I never have. "Winning isn't every thing, but wanting to win is. I want to win.". Johnny Wimbrey

Brian please don't quit I still have a lot to learn.
Just a heads up I'm gonna be trying to get u look at my prop work when natts come around.

[Greg Schweers]

When we had our club in California in the 90s, there were 2 or 3 guys that always won. Some of the other guys started complaining that they couldn't win, so we decided to buy 10 roar legal motors for N1 Mono. One of the guys in the club had a dyno and tweeked all the motors to be the same. On race day, each guy would reach into the bag and pull out a motor - this didn't change one thing. I even switched boats with one of the guys and it still didn't matter. Just like what Brian says - you have to put the time in. People don't realize how much time an set-up you have to put in your boat. I think one of the problems is that people all have different skill levels.

[Jeff]

It is not about winning or losing, it is about making rules and sticking to them. Brian and darin were on the rules comitee, now they want to change them again to spec an esc that which ever one of them is sponsored by. Brian, you said the AQ motor has an advantge, well then why doesn't PB make one? Instead you guy's are lobbying for yet another rule change and mandatorty brand esc.That would be far worse thenhaving 3 different brands of motor in several kv options.

[Darin Jordan]

... and now you want PB esc to be added to the rule of only legal one to use

WHAT?? You're just making stuff up now... I've never, ever, said anything of the sort...

I don't recall ever saying that I didn't want to make a 2000-ish KV motor either... You really ought to stop this none-sense... because you are making no sense.

[Darin Jordan]

It is not about winning or losing, it is about making rules and sticking to them. Brian and darin were on the rules comitee, now they want to change them again to spec an esc that which ever one of them is sponsored by. Brian, you said the AQ motor has an advantge, well then why doesn't PB make one? Instead you guy's are lobbying for yet another rule change and mandatorty brand esc.That would be far worse thenhaving 3 different brands of motor in several kv options.

-
OK, let's make something CRYSTAL CLEAR... Brian and I are most certainly NOT lobbying for ANY RULE CHANGES! In fact, quite the opposite here... EVERYTHING we've been typing and discussing has been an attempt to get people off the ledge and get them to realize that the rules are FINE THE WAY THEY ARE!

So, you can stop your none-sense slandering now, and get back on topic. RANDY and the LA guys are the ones that have an issue with the rules currently, NOT US!!

[T.S.Davis]

Jeff, step away from the keyboard man. You know Darin and I have argued about everything from Lithium polymer to the color blue. He hasn't lobbied to get the rules pinned down to PB esc. I don't know where you're getting that from.

As for the "rules committee", the site we used to discuss ideas crashed and burned long before Dave put P spec into text form. The format Dave scribed for us was exactly what was being run all over. That was what was proposed in District 2 and later nationally.

Brian, don't you dare give up. If I'm still putting up with this crap you have to also. And don't stop playing with limited boats.

[Doby]

So, this thread is now about :

1) Two manufacturers trying to corner all the FE market with associated cloak and dagger theories to accomplish it.....
2) A secrent conglomeration of "experts" that through black arts, know how to tune their boats better than the rest of us....
3) Those that want to go fast using a "spec" set of electronics.
4) Those that want to go fast using the same electronics as those above in #3, but can't seem to accomplish it......
5) Those that think there is a problem with the current rules...
6) Those that want to fix a "problem" with the current rules.....
7) Those that think there is no problem to actuallly fix with the current rules....
8) Those that think the fix should now involve another varialbe in the setup......
9) Rules may, or may not be changing...
10) ProBoat is evil, AquaCraft is good....
11) Aquacraft is evil, ProBoat is good....
12) Coke is better than Pepsi...
13) Only approved heatshrink can be used on wires

So to those newbies that might read this thread and are now thourougly confused as to why they even considered getting involved in organized racing , please remember this:

Its actually quite fun. Period.

Doesn't matter if you come in first, or last, it will be the most fun you ever had. Forget about the potential politics and other crap and get involved. Just about everyone who shows up on race day will bend over backwards to try and help you out.

Speed doesn't mean you always win the race.

[raptor347]

It is not about winning or losing, it is about making rules and sticking to them. Brian and darin were on the rules comitee, now they want to change them again to spec an esc that which ever one of them is sponsored by. Brian, you said the AQ motor has an advantge, well then why doesn't PB make one? Instead you guy's are lobbying for yet another rule change and mandatorty brand esc.That would be far worse thenhaving 3 different brands of motor in several kv options.

When did Darin and I start lobbying for a rule change? I don't quite know where you're reading that.

As far as PB making a 2030 motor, when it makes financial sense it will happen. The fact that it hasn't should tell you how much pull we as racers have with PB.

In the boats that most people are running, the 2030kV motor has an advantage. It's entirely possible that other prop/hull combinations will perform on par or better than what we're running now. It may also be dependent on hull type, I would hazard a guess that riggers will always perform best on the 2030. I don't know, I haven't tested for hull types we don't race up here. DP has me thinking a different direction on tunnels.

I'm perfectly happy racing under the rules as they are. I am tired of people wanting to fix something that isn't obviously broken. Since the rules don't require a PB or AC esc, I'm not running one. My opinion is there are better options in both performance and user options, they aren't necessarily the budget choice.

BTW I was one of the people who felt P-ltd wasn't ready to be a national class. I'm also one of the people who didn't vote for it.

[raptor347]

Brian, don't you dare give up. If I'm still putting up with this crap you have to also. And don't stop playing with limited boats.

Don't worry Terry, I'm not going anywhere. I'm having too much fun abusing all our new blood (and a significant portion of the old blood).

Tony,
Have you recovered from the last round of abuse yet?

[Jeff]

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So, you can stop your none-sense slandering now, and get back on topic. RANDY and the LA guys are the ones that have an issue with the rules currently, NOT US!!

Hey Darin,I got an idea. Why don't you call me mom again and bragg about all you are doing and let's see if this thread stays on topic.

[properchopper]

Don't worry Terry, I'm not going anywhere. I'm having too much fun abusing all our new blood (and a significant portion of the old blood).

Tony,
Have you recovered from the last round of abuse yet?

At first you HATE the whip, but over time you learn to LOVE it .