Restrictor Plate racing

[TheShaughnessy]

OK, I've been sucked in to this, so here's my take (coming from the very start of "spec" racing). If one (among several) obvious goals of spec racing is to attract new talent, the best way that I see it is to have "rookie classses" to allow newbies to compete against each other and not be discouraged by being routinely blown off by more experienced tuner/racers. Even "IROC" type classes (which I'm in favor of) are likely to be won by more seasoned drivers . Case in point : last year two eager rookies came to a race in Camarillo - one traveled @ 150 miles and the other @ 90 miles. We raced P-Sport Hydro & P-Mono. They were BADLY blown away by the better racers. One was never seen or heard from again and it took about a year for the other to jump back in. If there could be a way to classify "rookies" the way the D19 gas guys do, there might be a better feeling among the up-and-coming and less drop-outs. Just sayin'...

Almost any other race discipline i can think of has classes, not just for motor size but skill level as well. Not only is it a little discouraging to get blown away, but i feel like it is also a little dangerous to have newbs and advanced racers on the same course. Newbs don't know how to hold lanes as well, we are gonna flip more ( making obstacles for the fast stable guys)

Another Moto analogy. You wouldn't find Kevin windum or Ricky carmichael on the track at the same time as a novice, it just wouldn't make sense. However, there is a problem with this as well. How do you make the class? It is hard enough getting 5 boats on the water let alone 5 newbs.

I was more discouraged at camarrillo due to how my boat was running. I'm stupid enough to think that if i could just keep my boat sponson side down I can run the pace with most guys. Right now my vegas has this nasty tenancy to submarine on the straits at higher speeds, but i'll get that figured out and i think she can be pretty fast, that 4074 in there sure was cookin though.

[raptor347]

Hitting 67 in a spec class when most can barely get in the mid to high 50's will do nothing more than discourage new guys.
Sorry, but thus far since a certain handful of "top racers" introduced their rendition of "monster power" hasn't helped the growth of our hobby. Of course a newbie is gonna be behind the eightball in tuning.

It hasn't discouraged the new guys up here. But then I help our new guys tune their boats so they learn and become competitive.

I find it interesting that the spec classes are working great everywhere but in the Bay Area.

I suppose I don't mind being lumped in with "top racers", mostly because I'm pretty sure several of my closest friends are included. Who else is in the "certain handful of top racers" club? Is it invitation only? Maybe we need T-shirts.

"Handful of Top Racers Club - ruining the hobby, one class at a time". We need a logo!

I just try to get the most out of whatever I run. I guess there's something wrong with trying to find somethings full potential. Of course that mindset explains half the problems in society today.

Rules were proposed, voted on and passed. I don't remember writing any of the rules that have passed in the last 6 years or so. I certainly didn't force anything down anyone's throat when it comes to rules and classes.

Maybe I should just be banned from heat racing competition? I could go to more SAW's and 2-laps if I wasn't allowed to go to Nationals.


Glad this new direction is going to help your club, have fun at 55mph. A stock SV-27 motor/esc ran 53mph in my old N2 hydro (Pags owns it now) in 2007, the first time we put the power system in anything other than an SV-27. Prop was a cupped up M645. That was the very first test of the potential of the P-ltd power/class up here.

[DPeterson]

Every couple Months someone posts something about trying to grow the Hobby. What are you trying to do? You want 100 guy's showing up on a weekend to run boats? If so that means you will run your boat once all weekend. Major fun! Good luck with that anyway.

Then it always comes back to "we can't grow the Hobby because of the P-Limited rules. Geezus cripes!

Boat classes will not grow anything period! I don't care if it is toy stock, P-Limited or full blown open. It is what it is. 6-7 years ago when AQ came out with the Supervee, we created a stock class for these. We had like 6-7 of them running and it was great fun. The next year there was maybe 3-4 of us running and then the next year there is none. It is not the classes that drive growth. If it is, prove it to me.

It is different in all areas of the country, but in our area the growth is slow but sure. The growth is nitro converts. These guy's are going electric because they very much like the speeds and durability we are showing them with our P-Limited boats. They are not interested in slower stock toy boat classes. In fact, I predict we will be discussing some open P and larger classes in the near future.

Brian - I'll race ya. I think I'll leave my rigger at home though.

[T.S.Davis]

Sorry, but thus far since a certain handful of "top racers" introduced their rendition of "monster power" hasn't helped the growth of our hobby.

Always the conspiracy. Name names Wilmer.

The preface for Randy's "idea" is/was "Due to the higher cost and maintenance problems with the UL-1 motors, pro Boat and the other motors" ? I know, he didn't mean what he wrote but it's all we have to go on. Now you say it's the top racers "rendition of monster power" that's hindering growth. I don't even know what that means but it begs the question.......is it "monster power" or a spec class that has high cost, high maintenance spec motors that are the problem?

Sorry to be a jerk but I can't keep up with you guys. I don't think you even read what you type. Your all over the place. A couple weeks ago you guys wanted $200 Novak, Tekin or Castle motors instead of the current spec. It was suggested then that you guys prove THAT concept. Now we're moving on to restrictor plates......and monster power is the devil. It's like a communicative A.D.D. out there.

You want participation. Totally get that. Maybe, just maybe your clubs lack of participation has nothing to do with the rules. Our club did the Michigan cup thing for 10 years. Lots of fun for everyone but us. It was ALL we did really. Our club was dying slow death. What WE were doing wasn't working for our locals. We had to find something different. My club has doubled in size since the introduction of spec racing. I can't get to all the races available to me in under a days journey.

If restrictor plate racing is the answer to FE's prayers you should have no problem proving your concept. We'll all follow your clubs lead to massive participation numbers.

[Doby]

I love you guys

[T.S.Davis]

Also, to any newbs out there reading this rubbish. Don't be intimidated by the prospect of running with the big dogs. I can only think of three guys from coast to coast that I would say "holy crap, how can I compete with that?" One guy I've never raced with but I know his reputation. The other two I only get to race at nationals when I go. Those two guys driving skills put them in a league that few belong in. They could whip me with drill motor strapped to a log. Twaits Jr. is not the fastest guy on the pond but he's won more heats than most of us will even run in our life time. Those kind of guys are not at every club race on every pond in the US. They're a special breed. The interesting thing about all these guys is that they would probably pull the prop off their boat and hand it to you to try. They might even hand you the controller to their personal rides and talk you through a race just to help you learn how they do it.

[longballlumber]

I find these types of threads interesting and amusing all at the same time. I am of the opinion that the general public try’s to address a problem or change rules BEFORE they CLEARLY define what the problem or issues are AKA REQUIREMENTS…

By clearly defining what the problem is you’re able to better define what the answer needs to be. The beauty of how NAMBA prefers the management of new or changed rules, you (the club) get to be in the forefront of knowing the results of your own purposed changes

Using this type of mindset you will get you a few things…

1. You will find your REQUIREMENTS contradict each other and you will be forced to compromise on your requirements in order to solve your problem
2. You realize your original stated requirements need to be readdressed or rewritten, because they don’t clearly define or address the problem your trying to fix.
3. The requirements you define will lead you down the path of creating answers. NOW, weather you like the answers or not is a different story

So, I will ask the question… WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM OR GOAL FOR THE SITUATION (REQUIREMENTS)?

In the particular case of this thread it I pulled a few things from Randy’s original thread
• Higher cost of Aquacraft , Proboat, and “other” motors
• Maintenance problems of the Aquacraft, Proboat, and “other” motors
• Maintaining a threshold of performance by defining a “top” speed. (using a GPS unit)
• Being able to use older, but functional technology within the same class

I think we can see quickly the above statements quickly contradict themselves. Some of the statements need to be expanded on to understand the issue. Especially in the world of model boating and all of the variables our hobby possesses.

Randy - can you confrim or clear up what the true objective is? At this point I am only making assumptions based on the original post.

Later,
Ball

[BILL OXIDEAN]

It hasn't discouraged the new guys up here. But then I help our new guys tune their boats so they learn and become competitive.

I find it interesting that the spec classes are working great everywhere but in the Bay Area.

I suppose I don't mind being lumped in with "top racers", mostly because I'm pretty sure several of my closest friends are included. Who else is in the "certain handful of top racers" club? Is it invitation only? Maybe we need T-shirts.

"Handful of Top Racers Club - ruining the hobby, one class at a time". We need a logo!

I just try to get the most out of whatever I run. I guess there's something wrong with trying to find somethings full potential. Of course that mindset explains half the problems in society today.

Rules were proposed, voted on and passed. I don't remember writing any of the rules that have passed in the last 6 years or so. I certainly didn't force anything down anyone's throat when it comes to rules and classes.

Maybe I should just be banned from heat racing competition? I could go to more SAW's and 2-laps if I wasn't allowed to go to Nationals.


Glad this new direction is going to help your club, have fun at 55mph. A stock SV-27 motor/esc ran 53mph in my old N2 hydro (Pags owns it now) in 2007, the first time we put the power system in anything other than an SV-27. Prop was a cupped up M645. That was the very first test of the potential of the P-ltd power/class up here.

Never said I was personally only hitting 55 I've just accomplished enough in my club and nationally to not need to smash on the new members.
I could care less what or when you run. I still gets mine that is, unless of course you're trying and have my records thrown out : )

I'm glad our club is finally back developing. Great topic Randy, nice way to develop our club.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Also, to any newbs out there reading this rubbish. Don't be intimidated by the prospect of running with the big dogs. I can only think of three guys from coast to coast that I would say "holy crap, how can I compete with that?" One guy I've never raced with but I know his reputation. The other two I only get to race at nationals when I go. Those two guys driving skills put them in a league that few belong in. They could whip me with drill motor strapped to a log. Twaits Jr. is not the fastest guy on the pond but he's won more heats than most of us will even run in our life time. Those kind of guys are not at every club race on every pond in the US. They're a special breed. The interesting thing about all these guys is that they would probably pull the prop off their boat and hand it to you to try. They might even hand you the controller to their personal rides and talk you through a race just to help you learn how they do it.

Wow Terry, what dimension are you racing in? Will YOU be at the nats this year?
I'd like to see ANY of the three folks you're referring to hand me their top equipment even the prop their running..

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Due to the higher cost and maintenance problems with the UL-1 motors, pro Boat and the other motors we should allow any motor and restrict the speed of the boat with GPS on board. We should find the fastest boat and that is the max speed. Then it would become a racers race. All boats would have to have a working GPS on board at all times. If the boat went over the speed limit it would be disqualifyed.

Then it would more fair to every one and the old motors that are sitting in the closet could be used! This is for NAMBA ONLY.

IF YOU DO NOT RACE IN NAMBA DO NOT REPLY

This sounds like a fun idea for our club. My real boat was raced in a restrictor plate class. 427ci displacement limit 65mph speed limit. Works great!
I like that our club is geared towards running all varieties of motors, can make for nothing less than an inviting class for newcomers, RTR guys, and the old racers we're able to bring back out with the stuff still in their garage.

Now let me get back to my bench, I'm testing a new boat today : )

[T.S.Davis]

Nope not this year. That would make 11 races (I think it's 11) and a lot of dough to travel that far. Plus I owe some folks an appearance for all the support they've shown us over the years.

I race in the same dimension you do Wilmer. One of those three I'm refering to gave you an entire boat to run O Sport hydro with at the 2006 nationals. You were handed a boat from a hall of fame racer with the winningest record in the history of FE and beat me with it. So yeah, it can happen.

[brooks93]

Amen. There are guys that walked away from the hobby forever over it. The on-line debates have been heated. My favorite was the LiPo debate. Lipo was supposed to be the end of the hobby. The brushless or no brushless debate was pretty tasty too. The sky was falling. Imagine your boats running on Nimh today. Kooky but it was what some thought we should be doing.

Hey Howard, remember when a Hacker77 used to cost $275 and then we would burn up three of those and a matched set of 32 Nimh figuring out a setup? All for a 42 mph T Offshore. Now that was expensive racing. You can almost buy a whole boat for what we used to pay for the ESC alone. Same speed on just 4s.

I think I still have some scares from that debate.

[DPeterson]

I like that our club is geared towards running all varieties of motors, can make for nothing less than an inviting class for newcomers, RTR guys, and the old racers we're able to bring back out with the stuff still in their garage.

Please take lots of pictures and videos for us. Looking forward to seeing 8 boat heats and 50 tent pit areas.

[brooks93]

Wow Terry, what dimension are you racing in? Will YOU be at the nats this year?
I'd like to see ANY of the three folks you're referring to hand me their top equipment even the prop their running..

I might go to see some friends and meet some new people. I have had 3 different top guys offer me complete boats and equipment if I wanted to race. I currently have nothing.. Not even a rx pac.

I have gave people big motors, esc, props hell even boats. Heck I even built boats in the hotel room with my stuff and their stuff and help them set it up and watched them win with it the next day.

as far as the gps Idea I think it would be to hard to regulate. Different version have different accuracy. Also your now adding a additional cost and concern to the glass.

The only way to restrict it is a electronic breaker or fuse. set the limit of amps but then people would be forced to learn how to tune boats to the max and some would have a step learning curve and some would not.

[T.S.Davis]

Heck I even built boats in the hotel room with my stuff and their stuff

Way off on a tangent here.......so sue me.

Didn't we build a Titan at 2am out of parts from your box and parts we stole from a boat I was supposed to race the next day? MAN that was fun. Somewhere there's a picture of two T powered cats trying to breed on a window seat. It's PG if I can find it. Same race different class, Vasdekis pulled a motor out of his boat to loan me. He wasn't done racing with it. He just yanked it out between heats because I needed the wind he had. Who does stuff like that? FE guys do. Of course not all of them do but it's that kind of sacrifice that you never forget. Wasn't a big deal to him but it's stuck with me for years.

2010 my LSH was smushed by Jason Sims. Wasn't his fault. He couldn't see it. I didn't have the parts to cobble it back together. Peterson had the bracket I needed. Steven Vaccaro had the flex shaft. Got it back on the water. Same race my Q sport was chopped nearly in half. I had no plans to put it back together. Totalled IMO. Twaits set the whole red team to work trying to piece it back together. He just took it away and brought it back to me assembled. Poorly....haha But it's the thought that counts.

2009 nats, Ken Haines loaned me THE prop that held the national record for spec rigger at that time. Not one like it. The actual prop.

I have countless stories like that.

Wilmer, we need a drink. haha Remind me next time we see each other that I owe you at least one. Randy's earned a hug too.