TP 5850 vs LMT 3060 or perhaps, 155$ vs 510$... and??

[keithbradley]

Incrimination via YouTube! Hard landings have also been killers of motors.

Hooking hard in a mono can be a destroyer as well. That cavitation-induced driveline vibration is NASTY.

We could probably start a thread on "Ways to kill a motor that you never considered".

[kfxguy]

Definitely not a fluke in his case...it was only a matter of time. Running his motor on 9s would be more comparable to running your 1900kv 1521 on 9s, not 7s. I think it was probably a fun experiment, but hopefully lesson learned.

Nothing I can say there. That's his own fault although he told me he only tried it once or twice (I asked him after you said he had run it on 9s). Btw I think it would be a more fair comparison of saying the 1900kv on 8s vs his 1644kv on 9s. Which is just silly either way. He did mention he wanted to try 9s at one point and I was against it. I told him the motor can't handle it.

[nichismo]

well it seems theres hardly any reason (or perhaps motivation to provide said reasoning) in my eyes to purchase a Lehner instead of the 5670 i have been considering.

threads already offtopic, so I had a question, since theres probably alot of twin motor experience here. Could anyone provide me a rough idea or maybe just a choice of "better performance" between either a single 720kv 5670 on 10s, or twin 880kv 4070s on 8s each in a 45inch, 25lb boat?

[ray schrauwen]

Castle has a sale on today. Monster Mamba package for $350.... Just sayin' ! You'd need a water Jacket and convert the esc for water cooling...

[keithbradley]

well it seems theres hardly any reason (or perhaps motivation to provide said reasoning) in my eyes to purchase a Lehner instead of the 5670 i have been considering.

threads already offtopic, so I had a question, since theres probably alot of twin motor experience here. Could anyone provide me a rough idea or maybe just a choice of "better performance" between either a single 720kv 5670 on 10s, or twin 880kv 4070s on 8s each in a 45inch, 25lb boat?

You will have the potential for more power with 10s. People put too much emphasis on the number of motors in a boat when it comes to predicting speed. If it's a scale cat that's made to run with twin power, I would suggest running twins regardless. If you're asking which has the potential to go faster, whichever setup is carrying the most power (lipo cells) in the boat.

EDIT: I also don't know why you think the thread is off topic. Discussion of motors failing and different causes of failure is pretty relevant to "which one is better". Make no mistake, you get what you pay for when it comes to German quality vs. Chinese quality.

[nichismo]

You will have the potential for more power with 10s. People put too much emphasis on the number of motors in a boat when it comes to predicting speed. If it's a scale cat that's made to run with twin power, I would suggest running twins regardless. If you're asking which has the potential to go faster, whichever setup is carrying the most power (lipo cells) in the boat.

EDIT: I also don't know why you think the thread is off topic. Discussion of motors failing and different causes of failure is pretty relevant to "which one is better". Make no mistake, you get what you pay for when it comes to German quality vs. Chinese quality.

well yeah im not exactly completely oblivious to where that extra money goes, theres obvious implications as long as you understand basic motor dynamics and fabrication, even moreso when reviewing the general market landscape, its just in regards to the two videos and posted and their particular motor setups and corresponding technical specifications, I was hoping for just a little more elaboration in those aspects, rather than Travis and Brandons runs, thats all. Apologies, probably should have emphasised that moreso.

Ive only been familiar with rather large boat setups since getting involved with the hobby, so perhaps ive been a little more sensitive towards the RPM and heat relationship. Totally aware of the importance of lipos, Ive often told people unfamiliar with the hobby and interested in my project (specifically ones that are suprised to learn im using FE power) that lipos are the biggest advancement in recent memory and are most reponsible imo of the great progress in performance its enjoyed. The reason im so curious about the motors is the boat is a hydroplane rather than a cat, and obviously a twin powered hydroplane is unorthodox and im sure in many faithful scale hydro guys whom pretty much race majority of the time, its almost blasphemy or at the least, rather silly... lol. but ive just been inspired by a recent build ive seen and have been naturally curious ever since. That being said, isnt it still worth noting that larger, low KV motor, especially lower quality chinese motors, more "equipped" to handle higher cell counts than the latter? its just that im not currently keen on the idea of spending anymore than I have to on my lipos at this point, and with the twin setup..... yeah you already understand lol. But if its worth it, then heck, who cares!

Also Keith I sent you an email recently, was just curious if you maybe had a moment to review it yet :)

thanks

[iridebikes247]

The TP motor is a 6 pole. I ran the 5850 1000kv on 11s, was harder on escs than 1010kv 3040s on 12s. By harder on escs I mean higher esc temps.

I know for a fact the 5692/98/110 is easier on electronics than a similar size TP.

The big TP motor grew in popularity a few years ago and some impressive speeds were posted. GPS speed or video doesn't reflect motor quality or efficiency. I only ran high rpm with the TP though.

[kfxguy]

Well I apologize if the thread has gotten off track. I won't give my opinion or experience anymore. Keep to my self for now on.

[keithbradley]

well yeah im not exactly completely oblivious to where that extra money goes, theres obvious implications as long as you understand basic motor dynamics and fabrication, even moreso when reviewing the general market landscape, its just in regards to the two videos and posted and their particular motor setups and corresponding technical specifications, I was hoping for just a little more elaboration in those aspects, rather than Travis and Brandons runs, thats all. Apologies, probably should have emphasised that moreso.

Ive only been familiar with rather large boat setups since getting involved with the hobby, so perhaps ive been a little more sensitive towards the RPM and heat relationship. Totally aware of the importance of lipos, Ive often told people unfamiliar with the hobby and interested in my project (specifically ones that are suprised to learn im using FE power) that lipos are the biggest advancement in recent memory and are most reponsible imo of the great progress in performance its enjoyed. The reason im so curious about the motors is the boat is a hydroplane rather than a cat, and obviously a twin powered hydroplane is unorthodox and im sure in many faithful scale hydro guys whom pretty much race majority of the time, its almost blasphemy or at the least, rather silly... lol. but ive just been inspired by a recent build ive seen and have been naturally curious ever since. That being said, isnt it still worth noting that larger, low KV motor, especially lower quality chinese motors, more "equipped" to handle higher cell counts than the latter? its just that im not currently keen on the idea of spending anymore than I have to on my lipos at this point, and with the twin setup..... yeah you already understand lol. But if its worth it, then heck, who cares!

Also Keith I sent you an email recently, was just curious if you maybe had a moment to review it yet :)

thanks

I think twins on a hydro is cool, but a single is going to be a lot more straight forward. Depending on your experience level and how much you are willing to learn and figure out for yourself, it might be a better fit to do a single first, and save the twin for later. If you build a single there are a lot of guys on here that can help you tune it, if you build a twin it's pretty much going to all fall on your shoulders.

The biggest difference between twin prop and single prop is realized because you having a counter-rotating prop. It changes the way the hull handles and the lift characteristics of the boat. If you have a boat without flat ride pads like a daytona/genesis, explorer, HPR, MHZ, Radtek, etc., I think you're better off with twins because of the lower amount of hydrodynamic lift at low speeds. With something like a hydro, I think it's more of a novelty.

Keep in mind that a twin setup is less efficient than a single prop setup, so if you're looking for the most bang for your buck and not concerned with the novelty of having a hydro with twins, go with one motor. If you're building one of the aforementioned cats, I would definitely tell you the opposite.

[Fluid]

If the OP is interested in oval running, he will probably not want counter rotating twins. Every oval racing outrigger twin I have seen - over a dozen - ran same-direction motors because CR compromises turning too much. If he just want to make zip-zip runs the CR is the way to go..

[nichismo]

Well I apologize if the thread has gotten off track. I won't give my opinion or experience anymore. Keep to my self for now on.

no need to apologize, no one said your experience and opinion aren't welcome. Im not a stifler for keeping threads on topic, the thread was already moved to begin with and I was just stating the thread was offtopic to give myself clearance for what I was about to bring to the discussion, rather than make a new thread. In fact, the entire reason I wanted to do this was exactly because of the experience I felt I had available with the people whom were posting so far. If I made another thread, theres no assurance that id be able to get as well educated opinion as I would with the members already here.

please, would love your opinion on any topic :)

I think twins on a hydro is cool, but a single is going to be a lot more straight forward. Depending on your experience level and how much you are willing to learn and figure out for yourself, it might be a better fit to do a single first, and save the twin for later. If you build a single there are a lot of guys on here that can help you tune it, if you build a twin it's pretty much going to all fall on your shoulders.

The biggest difference between twin prop and single prop is realized because you having a counter-rotating prop. It changes the way the hull handles and the lift characteristics of the boat. If you have a boat without flat ride pads like a daytona/genesis, explorer, HPR, MHZ, Radtek, etc., I think you're better off with twins because of the lower amount of hydrodynamic lift at low speeds. With something like a hydro, I think it's more of a novelty.

Keep in mind that a twin setup is less efficient than a single prop setup, so if you're looking for the most bang for your buck and not concerned with the novelty of having a hydro with twins, go with one motor. If you're building one of the aforementioned cats, I would definitely tell you the opposite.

This is going to be the second scale hydro ive built, im just finishing up my first one which took up all of nearly 8 months to finish. I set it up for two different power configurations that I can swap at any time and I plan to drive it as much as possible before really proceeding with any real component choices for the next build.

The novelty aspect is definately a big part of it, as I felt the construction was something I wanted to thoroughly document for those interested, and even moreso the performance was something I would be really excited about, if its indeed anything like the inspiration I got the idea from.

The lift and potential blowovers is my main concern, but then again I figured with the substantial extra weight from doubling the necessary pieces would sort of balance things out. I don't necessarily want to settle for the best value, as any scale hydroplane is a lofty investment, even moreso with an FE setup, but then again Im not exactly at boundless levels of investment. Lipos are just the main point, whereas everything else is a permanent fixture for each respective project, and something I dont mind spending a little more on

If the OP is interested in oval running, he will probably not want counter rotating twins. Every oval racing outrigger twin I have seen - over a dozen - ran same-direction motors because CR compromises turning too much. If he just want to make zip-zip runs the CR is the way to go..

definately oval running

[dmitry100]

How much rpms would a 1644kv 2250 LMT spin on 8s unloaded?

[nichismo]

3.7v X 8s = 30

30 X 1644kv = 49,320 RPM

[keithbradley]

3.7v X 8s = 30

30 X 1644kv = 49,320 RPM

Actually, the 1644kv rating is LOADED, not unloaded. Comparable loaded kv from a typical 4-pole motor would more likely be rated somewhere in between 1800-1900. Crazy high for 9s.

Most of the twin riggers I have seen have been nitro powered, so not counter-rotating as Jay said. I can't think of any twin sport hydros, but I'm sure Jay is familiar with some. If I were to build one I would definitely try both variations. The good thing about electric is that you have the ability to simply swap rotation direction fairly easily.

[nichismo]

the hull itself is actually a 1/8 scale hull