need motor and ESC help please

[keithbradley]

I do not know why people will recommend a 300 plus ESC for a high voltage boat, it just is NOT needed! The power comes from the voltage, not the amperage. With 14S a 250-300 amp controller is plenty. That's 13,000/15,000 watts, more than enough.




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Did you see the part where his boat is 90" long and 40" wide?
Using a single electric motor to run a boat that large at a good speed is asking a lot. I would consider a 400A ESC far from overkill. Power is a factor of voltage AND current.

TP power makes a 100mm diameter inrunner, but I'm not sure how well it would work with the MGM ESC, I've never tried the combo. If it were mine I would use the Torqstar motor.

I've used both the MGM 250A and 400A ESCs and would also recommend the 400A model in this application. Either way, make sure the motor you choose will work properly with the ESC. A few guys have had issues when using MGM ESCs and cheaper motors.

[keithbradley]

What's the cost of the Scorpion motor Jay? I only see listings for $999, which isn't any cheaper than the Lehner.

[RaceMechaniX]

The OP has not said what his speed/performance targets are, nor what props he plans on running.

The Torqstar is a very nice motor and it has the option of being liquid cooled, I believe it is the only outrunner besides the one MHZ branded Scorpion which is way too small that has cooling liquid cooling available.
I would dare say a 2230 1Y is a little too high KV for 14S , I would recommend a 1.5Y instead of the 1Y. You could ask Steve Neu about his 44XX series motors, but I suspect they are expensive as well.
You could use a Lehner 3080 with low kv to swing a big prop, but they are expensive, but not as bad as the Torqstar.
The Scorpion HK7050 is a nice big motor and comparable to the Torqstar, but reports are it has cooling issues even in airplanes at moderate loads so in a boat with no liquid cooling is not going to work.

As for the controllers: The MGM's are very nice, but works best with certain motors particularly the LMT's. I have had issues with certain Neu motors and MGM controllers. The Swordfish 300 is another option although I have no experience with it.

However my final word of advice. Don't skimp, in most of these set-ups you get what you pay for. Assuming that you are building this boat from scratch and it will take many many hours why risk a fire with underpowered components.

TG

[RaceMechaniX]

For size comparison sake, here are several of the motor options from left to right;
LMT Torqstar3 7050, Scorpion HK7050, LMT 3080, Neu 2230 and a Scorpion 5035.
TG

IMG_0506.jpgIMG_0507.jpgIMG_0508.jpg

[Fluid]

OP, is this one of those 90" glass boats usually powered by a jet ski setup?

Rp42171.jpg

...I would dare say a 2230 1Y is a little too high KV for 14S

Tyler, the 2230-24/1Y has a Kv of 287, that's the one I recommended - but I didn't specify. You are right of course, the 2230-12/1Y is not appropriate.

What's the cost of the Scorpion motor Jay? I only see listings for $999, which isn't any cheaper than the Lehner.

NEMHobby has them listed for 750 Euros, or $850 plus shipping. Good point, I forgot the Euro has taken such a beating lately. Just a few months ago the exchange rate was 1.4:1.


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[RaceMechaniX]

You are right Jay, I did not think about the 24 pole variants. But now that you posted the picture of a similar hydroplane I am having more doubts if any hobby motor will propel a model that big.

You almost need something for a small pleasure boat; http://www.electricmotorsport.com/ma...-48v-650a.html

TG

[Make-a-Wake]

I wonder now if the one I suggested earlier would work...............he was looking for a less expensive option. Jay has suggested the 287kv and this one is 195 at 1/3 the cost. Its also a bit larger than the OP motor.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ner_Motor.html

[hydro rookie]

Hello again every one! Here is some additional info it appears ive left out. Sorry as you can tell I am a rookie at all this but really appreciate all the help. So the boat is a prototype that ive been working on for quite a few years. It is not one of those that someone posted earlier. Its not large enough to fit a jet ski motor. It will be approximately 60 lbs.+/- The shell is fiberglass with an aluminum rib structure inside. The prop I am proposing to start with is a 9515-3 stainless cleaver. I would like to go 50-60mph. Please Keep your recommendations coming. I will try and post a few photos soon so you can get a better idea of what my project looks like maybe that will help as well. Thanks again for al your help!!!

[hydro rookie]

ok as promised here are a few pics. Hope you like them.IMG00522-20121003-2027.jpgIMG00527-20121003-2029.jpgIMG00529-20121003-2030.jpgIMG00212.jpg

[Fluid]

Now I am with Tyler, similar boats have been powered with jetski power - plenty more than a hobby motor. That is a huge prop at 3.75" too!




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[hydro rookie]

I knew it was gonna be an uphill climb. I am hoping that with all the experts here and with the technology available today I will have a fighting chance to realize my dream. Please keep me posted on any thoughts or advice. I have the will I just need help with the way. Maybe a gear drive set up or something I dont really know. Im open to all ideas even if it is something outside the box so to speak.Thanks to everyone for your time and consideration.

[RaceMechaniX]

Assuming you got the advice from Andreas Lehner, he is probably right but I think you need a torqstar 3 and an MGM400 controller at minimum. If you are locked into a single prop and motor there are really no good options.

You might consider twin electric motors powered a single prop with a gear reduction unit. However, to be brutally honest a boat this size and the desire to hit 60mph are not realistic on a budget system let alone top of the line power system.

If you are open to other power systems you might consider the "rat house" from Matho Powetrain. A 4 cylinder inline Zenoah based on the Zenoah 260 cylinder. Retails for 2900 Euro, but when you factor in 14S worth of batteries and at minimum 2P to have decent run time the cost between gas and electric will not be too much different.

http://www.matho-powertrain.de/

TG

[hydro rookie]

Ok Sir I appreciate your honesty. I kinda figured 60mph would be a stretch for sure. I guess realistically I just want to go fast enough to get the boat up on plane and keep it there. I definately wont be racing it and will be happy to be able to go fast enough to at least give it a good scale appearance. If you saw the pics I posted this project is in memory of my step father who was a state police captain and drown in a freak boating accident. He loved being on the water and this is my way of putting him back out there hopefully.

[NativePaul]

I have no idea how to power something that big as my biggest is less than half that size, but it is an absolutely beautiful build, well done Hydro Rookie.

With a little padding in the air scoop you could sit on it, putting your feet up on the canards and paddle it like a kayak. Not very fast, but VERY fun.

The 60lb you mentioned, is that all up weight RTR or bare hull?

There have been a couple of HPR 233 cats with electric drives on here and if you google you will find more, now while a 233 is 92" long it is a much smaller boat and they all use twin drive systems, but they also go faster than you are after, so it may be possible to pick the same system as one of those but with a gearbox to swing a bigger prop slower, maybe not, as I said it's out of my relm, but worth a little research to see what motors their running, what props their spinning, what RPM their spinning, and what MPH their getting.

[tlandauer]

This is really impressive and beautiful.
Forgive me for asking a question totally unrelated to electric powered plant. Are there any real turbine engines ( for models that is) that can and have powered boats this size? I don't mean this as a suggestion, but purely as a question as I recall seeing a video with a turbine powered hydro plane.