JAE Builds

[Insaniac]

Just found this thread and in the process of building mine. Some of the instructions in the manual seem a bit ambiguous: on page 28, the instructions mention whether or not a high or low power motor is used and how the bottom sheets are glued to the sponsons. Low power means what? A UL-1? I plan to use either a Leo 3674 or TP Power 3640/2200 KV, 4S pack. Do these motors still constitute low power?
So what do you guy do when gluing the bottom sheeting on the sponsons? Center the sheeting or offset to one side?

I run an ARC 3655 ducted fan motor with the sponson sheeting centered...gets me into the high 60's on 5S...
Pete

[martin]

Just found this thread and in the process of building mine. Some of the instructions in the manual seem a bit ambiguous: on page 28, the instructions mention whether or not a high or low power motor is used and how the bottom sheets are glued to the sponsons. Low power means what? A UL-1? I plan to use either a Leo 3674 or TP Power 3640/2200 KV, 4S pack. Do these motors still constitute low power?
So what do you guy do when gluing the bottom sheeting on the sponsons? Center the sheeting or offset to one side?

The Leo & TP motors you mention are not considered low power motors, so the bottom sheets can be fitted & sanded with no overhang on the both sides of each sponson. Keep the overhangs at the rear though, if using a low powered motor centre the bottoms with overhang both sides of the sponson.

[JohnZ]

Martin, Thanks.

[JohnZ]

IMGP0358.JPGIMGP0357.JPGIMGP0356.JPGIMGP0355.JPGIMGP0360.JPGFinally got some photos of my build so far. Tub ready for installation of stuffing tube. Sponsons built, and stuffing tube now ready for the epoxy. I do need to get some more West Systems 207 finish hardener. The can I have is quite old and very dark.
I seem to encounter one problem after another with this build whether it's waiting for a motor or now I'm having problems getting the water jacket O rings installed. I bought the TP Power 3630 2200KV motor and cooling jacket and cannot get the O rings installed as per Youtube instructions. It appears to me the O rings are a tad to large to fit in between the motor case and the jacket. PAH!
Another question: How far from the motor collet should the end of the stuffing tube be? I tried the TLAR method to be about 5/16" I also plan to use a flex shaft saver to prevent loss in case the collet comes loose. Is this advisable?
ESC is a Hobby King Seawing 90...should be enough as motor is rated at 66 A.
Another question regarding props for that motor is will the prop that came with the Zipp Kits hardware kit be ok? It is a 1450 Mod prop. Will be running a 4S pack.

[Old Major]

I'm after a bit of advice after taking out my Zipp 21FE for the first time and getting the ESC and motor too hot. The ESC died and the heat shrink had started to melt. I'm not too sure about the state of the motor.

This is my first experience with fast electric I'd like to know where I went wrong in order to avoid making the same mistake again.

Motor: UL-1
ESC: Aquacraft Marine 60 Amp
Battery: Turning Nanotech 4500mAh, 35-70c
Propeller: Grim Racer L45 x 68
Plumbing: From rudder to ESC to ESC to SV27R water jacket and out the port side

I'm just after a reliable setup for having a bit of fun down the lake. The idea of having thermal protection for both the ESC and motor is rather appealing.

IMG_2590.JPG

IMG_2591.JPG

[Fluid]

From the two photos it doesn't look like there is a major problem with your build. The prop is a race setup so you should be limited to a timed 2 minutes max on a large oval course; short courses will draw more amps and heat things up quicker.

For general fun at the pond I'd start with an x442 prop. The speed will be a bit lower but it should generate much less heat for longer but safe running. You could step up to an x642 but watch the heat especially if you stretch the time. There are other combinations but this is a start.

Too, be certain that the strut is resting hard against the bottom of the ski and is parallel to the tub. I run my ESC in front of the pack using longer motor wires - not a bad thing to do. This keeps it cooler rather than sitting on the packs as they heat up.


.

[Old Major]

From the two photos it doesn't look like there is a major problem with your build. The prop is a race setup so you should be limited to a timed 2 minutes max on a large oval course; short courses will draw more amps and heat things up quicker.

For general fun at the pond I'd start with an x442 prop. The speed will be a bit lower but it should generate much less heat for longer but safe running. You could step up to an x642 but watch the heat especially if you stretch the time. There are other combinations but this is a start.

Too, be certain that the strut is resting hard against the bottom of the ski and is parallel to the tub. I run my ESC in front of the pack using longer motor wires - not a bad thing to do. This keeps it cooler rather than sitting on the packs as they heat up.


.

I well and truly exceeded 2 minutes so it sounds like the propeller choice was the main issue, especially given how much smaller the props you are suggesting are. Certainly way smaller than 1450 propellers that was recommended.

Yes the strut is resting on the ski and it is parallel to the tub.

I did plan on running the ESC in front of the batteries but I didn't have enough cooling tubing and wiring to reach that far, plus it moved the COG a bit further forward than ideal. It was a case of run it as it was or wait weeks for more parts to arrive which would arrive after the weather had turned cold. If I move the ESC forward there will be a bit more air circulating around it too.

What's a good ESC with plenty of spare capacity and a thermal cut out?

And engine suggestions? Preferably with similar external dimensions to the UL-1. Once again a thermal cutout is appealing as would be the capacity to stay cooler for longer.

[HOTWATER]

H-7 Is also a great prop for that setup...no worry about heat and run times are better. I would run a mill lap and up to 6 laps with about 1/3 of the battery left (which is about where you want to be after running)... anything more and you will really start to get esc wires hot enough to unsolder bullets from their wires!

[Fluid]

The big issue is run time with the racing props. The H-7 is a good racing prop, but not so good for extended running. My own JAE-21 with an open motor spinning an H-7 runs 6 laps on the 1/6th mile oval in around 1:15 maxing out in the upper 70s and uses about 3000 mAh of battery. And I'm not the best rigger driver. A limited motor like the UL-1's will still finish the course in well under 2 minutes, which is less than the OP seems to want. It can still overheat running over 2 minutes especially on a "course" shorter than 1/6th mile.

If the OP wants a different motor then the AQ-1800 would be a good choice for decent speeds and longer run times. Frankly it's actual Kv is not that much less than the UL-1 motor, which is over-rated. But it will draw fewer amps and perform okay.

ESCs are a problem too. I use a modified Castle aircraft controller, but this is a custom item. A SK-180 would work but I'm not sure it will fit in the JAE tub. An OSE Raider would be perfect, but perhaps a tight fit and it would have to go ahead of the pack. I run the latter in several other boats and it has performed well...and it is not that expensive.



.

[zooma]

Maybe the ESC couldn't handle the current spikes. However, our group uses the same setup with the Zip Kits 1540 mod prop.

[Old Major]

H-7 Is also a great prop for that setup...no worry about heat and run times are better. I would run a mill lap and up to 6 laps with about 1/3 of the battery left (which is about where you want to be after running)... anything more and you will really start to get esc wires hot enough to unsolder bullets from their wires!

Wouldn't the H7 lead to the production of more heat than the L45 x 68?

H7
Diameter 47.5 mm
Pitch 72 mm

1540 mod Prop
Diameter 46.5mm
Pitch 70mm

L45 x 68
Diameter 45mm
Pitch 68 mm

[HOTWATER]

The H-7 I use is actually cut down to around 45mm

[HOTWATER]

The big issue is run time with the racing props. The H-7 is a good racing prop, but not so good for extended running. My own JAE-21 with an open motor spinning an H-7 runs 6 laps on the 1/6th mile oval in around 1:15 maxing out in the upper 70s and uses about 3000 mAh of battery. And I'm not the best rigger driver. A limited motor like the UL-1's will still finish the course in well under 2 minutes, which is less than the OP seems to want. It can still overheat running over 2 minutes especially on a "course" shorter than 1/6th mile.

If the OP wants a different motor then the AQ-1800 would be a good choice for decent speeds and longer run times. Frankly it's actual Kv is not that much less than the UL-1 motor, which is over-rated. But it will draw fewer amps and perform okay.

ESCs are a problem too. I use a modified Castle aircraft controller, but this is a custom item. A SK-180 would work but I'm not sure it will fit in the JAE tub. An OSE Raider would be perfect, but perhaps a tight fit and it would have to go ahead of the pack. I run the latter in several other boats and it has performed well...and it is not that expensive.



.

Jay, you're prob. right about a heat race being under 2 min. ...actually never checked to see how long the P-Lim.Hydro heats last...the only thing I'm hoping is that I finish in one peice...lol!

A Neu 1415 or 1515 (2200 KV) motor would be great...just need a more efficient esc like the older Hydra 240's.

The blue SV27 motor is I believe 1800 KV and should be able to turn a bit bigger prop than the UL-1 (2030 KV)

[Fluid]

The old SV-27 used a 1500 Kv motor and it would work fine too with a slightly bigger prop. I used an x450/3 prop with that motor in one 4S boat! The 1800 Kv motor out of the MC and Revolt is probably a better choice but it depends on the desired run time.

My personal JAE-21 runs a Castle 1415/1Y but it is an open setup not at all good for extended sport running. This very fast race boat is all this old guy can handle on the oval, 'way too fast for most sport use other than zip-zip runs. Twelve second (and under) laps take some getting used to!


.

[Old Major]

It looks like I have discovered a mistake I made that was a significant contributor to the overheating. I purchased the kit and hardware off Ebay from someone that had never gotten around to starting the build and in the kit there was two motors. I put the smaller motor in thinking it was the UL-1, but I was wrong. The larger motor is a 36-56-2030, but the smaller motor that I installed is a 36-50-2300.

So I guess now I put in the UL-1 motor, stick with my current prop and get a larger capacity ESC. Does that sound appropriate?