House health bill makes private medical insurance illegal

[AndyKunz]

If I take your money with promises of taking care of you in a time of need

You mean, like the bankrupt Social Security?

Or perhaps the VA Hospitals?

but instead do everything I can to deny paying anyone who is in need and what little I do pay comes from those that I continue to con into my scheme, it is called an insurance company

Instead of "pre-existing conditions" there are "conditions not worth spending our money treating."

Andy

[JimClark]

Here is a reasonable approach

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574342170072865070.html

Jim

[domwilson]

Instead of "pre-existing conditions" there are "conditions not worth spending our money treating."

Andy

And who determines that? Where is the line drawn? Is it by age? Race? Occupation? Financial status? Or even political affiliation? If you break a bone as a child, does that qualify as a pre-existing condition when you are older and develop arthritis?

[Rumdog]

Really? What are these conditions Andy?

[Steven Vaccaro]

When we invented insurance companies.

If I take your money and lie to you that I am investing it but instead use it to pay off earlier investors, it is called a "Ponzi Scheme" and I am labeled a crook.

If I take your money with promises of taking care of you in a time of need but instead do everything I can to deny paying anyone who is in need and what little I do pay comes from those that I continue to con into my scheme, it is called an insurance company and I am labeled good God-Fearing Capitalist who is only looking out for his share holders.

One guy goes to jail, the other goes to the Country Club with his Senator.

What am I missing? How many people are denied and what for? The way you guys are saying it, It sounds to me like an epidemic. The only stuff I have ever heard of personally is experimental stuff. And I'm sure as hell positive that a Government system will deny the same stuff.

[domwilson]

Google healthcare denials. See how many businesses pop up that specialize in this type of service.

[domwilson]

Healthcare Profiteering... http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/07/13/2507

[AndyKunz]

Really? What are these conditions Andy?

Read the PDF. It's only 10 pages.

http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/PIIS0140673609601379.pdf

http://blog.jonolan.net/politics/complete-lives-system/ - This one has links to Dr. Emanuel's actual articles. Scarier yet.

http://davekellogg.wordpress.com/200...ur-healthcare/ - Not as in-depth but has some more thoughts on the subject.

If England's leaders had read Mein Kampf they could have saved millions of lives instead of sticking their heads in the sand. This link is written by the head of this effort. You can learn EXACTLY what his plans are, what the basis is for the bill in front of your Representatives right now.

Read it. Know what the goal is. Don't just listen to what the media and politicians are telling you. Shoot, don't even listen to me, READ WHAT THE MAN BEHIND THE PLAN SAYS HIMSELF.

Andy

[Bill-SOCAL]

Reading it is one thing, understanding it is an entirely different thing. And it is clear that the first was accomplished but the second was not.

Dr. Emmanuel’s paper deals with a very specialized area of medical ethics, how to ethically allocate scarce resources in times of extreme need, like during a pandemic, etc. Please notice that he goes through several other possibilities as well which deal with the same question. It is very clearly NOT a framework for the design of an entire health system. Except when you want to distort reality to scare the hell out of people.

[domwilson]

Reading it is one thing, understanding it is an entirely different thing. And it is clear that the first was accomplished but the second was not.

Dr. Emmanuel’s paper deals with a very specialized area of medical ethics, how to ethically allocate scarce resources in times of extreme need, like during a pandemic, etc. Please notice that he goes through several other possibilities as well which deal with the same question. It is very clearly NOT a framework for the design of an entire health system. Except when you want to distort reality to scare the hell out of people.

I conquer. This is an examination of current principles in times of severity. How they are used. Pros and Cons and general recommendations. He acknowledges that it is not perfect. At no time did I read that It was a blueprint for a healthcare system.

[domwilson]

I understand that there are many in fear of losing their current healthcare. It maybe in some geographical locations that healthcare may be adequate. But what I do find disconcerting is that some want to deny healthcare benefits to 47 million just because they feel that these people don't deserve it or that they have their own ideological agendas. Both parties want healthcare reform. There are some "elitist" who believe that healthcare is only for them. Shame on those who are.

[domwilson]

Here's another take on this.. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ray-ha..._b_242938.html

I don't neccessarily agree with his take on it. But there are some concerns. If I recall, The Republicans tried to push for some healthcare reforms http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourhealth/...overrides.html

And guess who lobbied heavily against it?

[Bill-SOCAL]

This sums up the article for me

Although it may be applicable more generally, the complete lives system has been developed to justly allocate persistently scarce life-saving interventions. Hearts for transplant and influenza vaccines, unlike money, cannot be replaced or diverted to non-health goals; denying a heart to one person makes it available to another. Ultimately, the complete lives system does not create “classes of Untermenschen whose lives and well being are deemed not worth spending money on”, but rather empowers us to decide fairly whom to save when genuine scarcity makes saving everyone impossible.

But be very afraid, big bad Obama is gonna kill your Granny!!

[domwilson]

Some people don't want fair. They want, what they want, and screw everybody else. We used to call them "spoiled brats."

[Darin Jordan]

But be very afraid, big bad Obama is gonna kill your Granny!!

"Maybe... it's time for Grandma... instead of having the operation... to take the pain pill instead"...

I might have misquoted slightly... I couldn't find the exact text... but You can't MAKE this stuff up! Who said this again???

And it just HAPPENS to jive with all the "Complete Life" ideology that WHO supports??? Oh, two of his closest "Czars"... What a coincidence...

Keep trying to explain it away, guys... people are starting to see the connections...

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Will-Obama-euthanize-granny-51596737.html