Countries with Universal Health Care

[Steven Vaccaro]

Quote from Steven

"Ask the 20 million illegal aliens residing in the USA if they are turned away at hospitals! They are not, as a matter of fact, check the local emergency rooms around Boston, the waits are ridiculous! They are filled with people that will not pay a cent"

Steven, try that if you do not have USA documentation.

Douggie

Doug I dont have to try. My grand parents worked hard to save and come here the correct way. So my parent and I are US citizens!

Also I know ILEGAL aliens, if they have just an itch they go to the emergency room. Its amazing!

[Steven Vaccaro]

Of course you ignore the fact that Obama is actually accounting for the costs of the two wars. Something which Bush did not in his numbers. But that never bothered you.

Ok Bill, now that O has outlined his "pull out" of Iraq, I have a theory on why he has added the war to the budget. In 2010 the bulk of the military will be pulled out and the budget will be decrease substantially. He will than be telling us about the major savings he's made to the budget. Smoke and Mirrors.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Well, he "added" the war costs to the budget because that is the way you do a budget. Bush pulled a fast one and excluded the war costs to present a better budget picture. That has never been done before.


So if you want to talk about "smoke and Mirrors" Steven lets give credit to the real magician, Bush. He took a huge surplus and turned into the largest deficit in history, and he did that WITHOUT accounting for the war costs. But you all think that he did and use that as the excuse for his deficit.

So now Obama does the right thing and he is the shifty one? Got it.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Also I know ILEGAL aliens, if they have just an itch they go to the emergency room. Its amazing!

My wife works for the hospital in our area of south Orange County, CA. We have a very large Latino population. I have no idea how you know the immigration status of the people who go to your local emergency room, because out here they do not and cannot inquire. So how do you know the numbers, or are you simply assuming that ALL Latino people are illegals??

For the record, the overwhelming number of people who come into her emergency room are nice white people. And it is staggering to realize how few of them have insurance. One of the big issues for our hospital is how many nice white folks jam our emergency room for a simple cold because they don't want to wait to see their doctor.

Our hospital does over 55,000 patient visits per year, the problem is not all those nasty illegals. It is all those hard working people, black, brown, and white with no insurance. See it IS illegal to turn away a patient without insurance in California, so they go to the emergency room.

What is troubling is the overt racism so many show with their comments. The really sad part is that you do not even realize what you are saying it is so built into your mindset.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Bill I will be the first one to say I'm wrong when in 2010 he comes out and says the only reason for the huge decrease in the budget was the reduction of troops in Iraq.

There are many, many democrats and republicans that are growing tried of the same old crap. How can these guys from both sides come on tv and lie about where they stand, what they will do and what they have done?

I just heard some get new on Thursday. Massachusetts is getting about 10 billion from the stimulus package. 1-2 billion for infrastructure and 7-8 billion for "programs". I wonder how many jobs will be created from "programs"? More junk jobs, more pork. But as Schumer says, we hard working Americans don't care about the pork. Just keep handing out the checks!

I know I'm way off topic, but when McCain said we may be in Iraq for a long time he was killed by the left wing media. How come they are not crucifying O for wanting for keep 50k in troops there indefinitely?

[Darin Jordan]

Let's not forget... Obama and his band of "social do-gooders" voted YES to EVERY one of Bush's budgets, and they were pissed off he wasn't spending more...

[Steven Vaccaro]

My wife works for the hospital in our area of south Orange County, CA. We have a very large Latino population. I have no idea how you know the immigration status of the people who go to your local emergency room, because out here they do not and cannot inquire. So how do you know the numbers, or are you simply assuming that ALL Latino people are illegals??

For the record, the overwhelming number of people who come into her emergency room are nice white people. And it is staggering to realize how few of them have insurance. One of the big issues for our hospital is how many nice white folks jam our emergency room for a simple cold because they don't want to wait to see their doctor.

Our hospital does over 55,000 patient visits per year, the problem is not all those nasty illegals. It is all those hard working people, black, brown, and white with no insurance. See it IS illegal to turn away a patient without insurance in California, so they go to the emergency room.

What is troubling is the overt racism so many show with their comments. The really sad part is that you do not even realize what you are saying it is so built into your mindset.

Please don't try to judge me from the other side of the monitor. I have two extremely good sales people that I hired and work for me that are from Columbia. They came here legally. And worked hard to do it! I hear the stories from them. I see the numerous people that try to sell us a piece of jewelry but can not because they hold no ID's or have fake "mall" issued id's. I have friends in the city that are police and have to deal with illegals driving with no license and no insurance. FACE IT ANY ILEGALS ARE A MAJOR BURDEN ON OUR SOCIETY. If that statement makes me a raciest in your eyes, I can live with that.

[Flying Scotsman]

Yes, America has a huge illegal alien problem, but who hires them, knowing they are illegaly in the country? Fix that illegal practice and the problem will be solved, and as a bonus, wages will go up.

Douggie

[ghostofpf1]

Yes, America has a huge illegal alien problem, but who hires them, knowing they are illegally in the country? Fix that illegal practice and the problem will be solved, and as a bonus, wages will go up.

Douggie

Never happen..Big Business makes too much money from the cheap labor


Steve

[Bill-SOCAL]

Let's not forget... Obama and his band of "social do-gooders" voted YES to EVERY one of Bush's budgets, and they were pissed off he wasn't spending more...

Well, not really, but lets not let facts destroy a fun debate:

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490&type=category&category=10&go.x=9&go.y=12

[Bill-SOCAL]

Please don't try to judge me from the other side of the monitor.

Let me be clear that the final remark in my post was not directed specifically at you Steven. I should have separated that out. But I do think that there is often a hidden underlying racial tint to many of the comments that I see about immigrants, both legal and illegal.

[Darin Jordan]

But I do think that there is often a hidden underlying racial tint to many of the comments that I see about immigrants, both legal and illegal.

That's a nice way to try to villify anyone with an oposing viewpoint...

Without any "racial tint" at all, here are a few more facts... I'm sure they won't get in your way...

Despite the slowdown, the number of illegal immigrants remains at an all-time high, up more than 40 percent from about 8.4 million in 2000 to 11.9 million in March,(2008) according to the Pew study. Illegal immigrants make up about 4 percent of the U.S. population and about 30 percent of its foreign-born residents. More than four out of 10, or 5.3 million, arrived since the start of the decade.

Sorry, but the big problem most of us have is that they are here ILLEGALLY...

Think of them as Big Business, sucking up resources and not paying their fair share... Maybe that will put it in terms the libs can understand...

And that's only considering that they are ALL "good people"... How many of them are "bad" ones??

[Steven Vaccaro]

Let me be clear that the final remark in my post was not directed specifically at you Steven. I should have separated that out.

Understood.

But I do think that there is often a hidden underlying racial tint to many of the comments that I see about immigrants, both legal and illegal.

I have not read many comments about "legal" immigrants. It seems all the comments I have ever read are targeted at "illegal" immigrants. I don't care if the Illegal is Green, black, brown, white, or red. If they are illegal they should be tossed back at their originating country.

My grandparents names are listed on Ellis Island, something they were proud of. That used to mean something to all incoming immigrants. Now its bypassed Illegally.

[RCprince]

That's a nice way to try to villify anyone with an oposing viewpoint...

Without any "racial tint" at all, here are a few more facts... I'm sure they won't get in your way...



Sorry, but the big problem most of us have is that they are here ILLEGALLY...

Think of them as Big Business, sucking up resources and not paying their fair share... Maybe that will put it in terms the libs can understand...

And that's only considering that they are ALL "good people"... How many of them are "bad" ones??

So Mr D. What happens to the companies who ship jobs overseas and still get tax incentives. Are they not sucking up the resources of the taxpayers? American companies who hire abroad are they not oozing our tax resources out of the country, by not hiring tax paying employees.

[Bill-SOCAL]

That's a nice way to try to villify anyone with an oposing viewpoint...

Well no, it is a way of making an observation, no attempt to "villify" anyone.

Sorry, but the big problem most of us have is that they are here ILLEGALLY...

Think of them as Big Business, sucking up resources and not paying their fair share... Maybe that will put it in terms the libs can understand...

And that's only considering that they are ALL "good people"... How many of them are "bad" ones??

Well, again, when you see a Latino on the street, or in an emergency room, or anywhere else, how can you tell by looking that they are illegal?? I am not in favor of illegal immigration, but I am also not for lumping all people of a given ethnic origin into a single group in the absence of evidence.

Speaking of "Big Business" where is your outrage for the companies that provide the jobs for all these illegals? Not a peep about that. All we hear is how bad they are and what a suck on our resources they are, but what about the people who knowingly hire them??

As far as criminal conduct goes, the latest estimates say that there were around 15,000 illegal aliens sentenced in the criminal justice system in the US on average over the past few years. Given the estimates of up to 25,000,000 million of them it seems like it is incorrect to perceive them as a predominantly criminal group. In fact, some studies show criminal conduct at a lower per capita rate than for the general population.

http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2008/02/immigrants_incl.html

There are others.

My point here is not to defend illegal immigration or to justify it in any manner. But I do want people to have a factual basis for their opinions. For me, if you are arrested and found to be illegal, then you get deported. If you are found to knowingly employ illegals, you go to jail.