Stimulus Plan ?

[Steven Vaccaro]

This stimulus plan is a waste of our money. Why not use the money to bring manufacturing back to the USA. Give giant tax cuts or even to subsidize factories/machineshops and companies that actually build a product in the USA. Subsidize moving families to rural areas of the country where these companies can start up cheaply. Its time for America to wake up and become a country of builders again, instead of just consumers.

[calcagno45]

"Its a spending bill" said President Obama....

We'll since when spending on sod, STD protection, new cars for the White House, etc. going to stimulate the economy. Like everyone is stating, its a bill where every Congressman has promised money to someone or somewhere, they are finally getting that money. However, its just going to create a larger deficit and stimulant Congress, thats it.

Some of the provisions and Amendments to the bill may well be worth it. Like these examples:
- "Making Work Pay" tax credit: giving 500 or 1000 to the working class. Thanks I'll take that.
- First Time Home Ownder Credit: some want to increase it all the way up to $15,000. Man, I might buy a home now.
- Plenty of Energy Tax credits
- Extending the Bonus Depreciation for a business a year: Sure helps when you can expense 50% of the basis in the first year.
- 5 Yr Net Op Loss Carryback: Want to extend it from 2 years to 5 yrs. This may help a lot of people take care of the operating losses suffered in 2008.
- Extension of Tax Code Section 179 another year: expensing capital expenditures up to $500,000 will help lots of business expand and grow when buying new equipment or facilities.
- increase Gift and Estate tax exclusion from 2mil to 3.5mil: I can see a lot of older people dying soon....

If they can get rid of all the added crap and fat on the bill, it would stimule the economy. But we have to spend 300Bil just to pay interest we owe China so they will continue to loan us money. We'll never become an independant, wealthy nation again unless we realize the facts that stare us in the face and work on it.

On a side note: We NEED TERM LIMITS! Thats a large part of the problem. Some may argue that it takes so long to get the ball rolling that the term limit is there before they can do anything. However, I feel that term limits will stimulate Congress and make our Congressman want to actually get things moving and work for the people they represent. It will also get rid of the Ted Kennedy's that are passing out at functions and have no clue how to help the economy. We need to get fresh new faces in the every 2 terms and help America revive itself.

[Darin Jordan]

$87-million dollars for a new Ice Breaker...

Ummmm... If global warming is really happening... WHY would we need an Ice Breaker?? The ice is suppose to all be melting, right???

If you are going to argue that this is stimulus... at least get your stories to mesh...

[ghostofpf1]

Some of these folks had no problem with the 700 billion bailout...the trillion + spent on the failed wars...now yer griping about spending money that will hopefully impact the avg Joe in a positive manner...nope no partisan politics here

Steve

[Darin Jordan]

...now yer griping about spending money that will hopefully impact the avg Joe in a positive manner...

I can list for you LINE and LINE after LINE of items being spent on in this bill that won't stimulate a THING. Won't create a job... Won't do much of anything...

Can you do the same for things that WILL???

Time to stop rhetoric, and start listing some facts...

If being "non-partison" means just blindly agreeing with whatever our current govenment thinks is priority, then YES, I'm partison... I think for myself and am proud of it... No Kool-Aide here... Never has been, never will be...

[Steven Vaccaro]

Some of these folks had no problem with the 700 billion bailout...the trillion + spent on the failed wars...now yer griping about spending money that will hopefully impact the avg Joe in a positive manner...nope no partisan politics here

Steve

Please explain to me how average Joe will be impacted by O's SPENDING plan? We are going to be spent to death.

Also since you decided to jump on my manufacturing thread, please tell me why my idea wouldn't work?

[Darin Jordan]

Its time for America to wake up and become a country of builders again, instead of just consumers.

Steven, what's even more ironic, and irritating about the ideas of the left, is that, while they acknowledge that our economies are "consumer driven", they don't apparently think that US keeping and spending our OWN MONEY helps that out...

I want to know when people are going to wake up and realize that FREEDOM is at stake here. I do NOT think the government knows better than I do how I should spend my money... MY hard earned and fought for money...

[Flying Scotsman]

Steven, what's even more ironic, and irritating about the ideas of the left, is that, while they acknowledge that our economies are "consumer driven", they don't apparently think that US keeping and spending our OWN MONEY helps that out...

I want to know when people are going to wake up and realize that FREEDOM is at stake here. I do NOT think the government knows better than I do how I should spend my money... MY hard earned and fought for money...

I hate to say it lads the communists have won. China will be the engine that drives the world economy. We have sat on our fat asses too long. A changing of the guard...China..India..Malaysia..Indonesia even Russia. The Old World..Greece..Rome..France..Spain..Britain..USA.. .all we do is it have a love affair about our past glories.

Douggie

[calcagno45]

Some of these folks had no problem with the 700 billion bailout...the trillion + spent on the failed wars...now yer griping about spending money that will hopefully impact the avg Joe in a positive manner...nope no partisan politics here

Steve

I wasn't for that waste of money then, and I'm not for this waste of money now. Especially now, the costs of this bill are just rising as these Congressman just add fat onto the bill.

How is providing STD prevention going to stimulate the economy? Ask Palosi

If they want to stimulate the economy, give the tax cuts or refund to those who actually paid taxes. Give incentives for those to spend the money here and loacally. Cut the corporate tax rate so corporations can begin to pick themselves up which in turn would pick up and stimulate the rest of the economy....

Parts of O's spending plan is to allocate money to those who don't pay taxes. Great so more people collecting on the system, sitting on their porches, and driving Cadillacs. Exactly what we need.

Where did the first money go? I don't see many people being approved and getting this money in loans. Hell, there's no borrowing going on. I htalked to a client of mine that has a credit score of 760 and got rejected on a car loan for $30K. What the hell?

[egneg]

Saw this the other day and I thought it held a lot of truth ...


To All My Valued Employees

There have been some rumblings around the office about the future of this company, and more specifically, your job. As you know, the economy has changed for the worse and presents many challenges. However, the good news is this: The economy doesn't pose a threat to your job. What does threaten your job however, is the changing political landscape in this country.

However, let me tell you some little tidbits of fact which might help you decide what is in your best interests. First, while it is easy to spew rhetoric that casts employers against employees, you have to understand that for every business owner there is a Back Story. This back story is often neglected and overshadowed by what you see and hear. Sure, you see me park my Mercedes outside. You've seen my big home at last years Christmas party. I'm sure; all these flashy icons of luxury conjure up some idealized thoughts about my life.

However, what you don't see is the BACK STORY :
I started this company 28 years ago. At that time, I lived in a 300 square foot studio apartment for 3 years. My entire living apartment was converted into an office so I could put forth 100% effort into building a company, which by the way, would eventually employ you.
My diet consisted of Ramen noodles because every dollar I spent went back into this company. I drove a rusty Toyota Corolla with a defective transmission. I didn't have time to date. Often times, I stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and partying. In fact, I was married to my business -- hard work, discipline, and sacrifice.

Meanwhile, my friends went to jobs. They worked 40 hours a week and made a modest $30K a year and spent every dime they earned. They drove flashy cars and lived in expensive homes and wore fancy designer clothes. Instead of hitting the Nordstrom's for the latest hot fashion item, I was trolling through the discount store extracting any clothing item that didn't look like it was birthed in the 60's. My friends refinanced their mortgages and lived a life of luxury. I, however, did not. I put my time, my money, and my life into a business with a vision that eventually, some day, I too, will be able to afford these luxuries my friends supposedly had.
So, while you physically arrive at the office at 9am, mentally check in at about noon, and then leave at 5pm, I don't. There is no "off" button for me. When you leave the office, you are done and you have a weekend all to yourself. I unfortunately do not have the freedom. I eat, and breathe this company every minute of the day. There is no rest. There is no weekend. There is no happy hour. Every day this business is attached to my hip like a one year old special-needs child. You, of course, only see the fruits of that garden -- the nice house, the Mercedes, the vacations... You never realize the Back Story and the sacrifices I've made.

Now, the economy is falling apart and I, the guy that made all the right decisions and saved his money, have to bail-out all the people who didn't. The people that overspent their paychecks suddenly feel entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed a decade and a half of my life for.

Yes, business ownership has is benefits but the price I've paid is steep and not without wounds. Unfortunately, the cost of running this business, and employing you, is starting to eclipse the threshold of marginal benefit and let me tell you why:

I am being taxed to death and the government thinks I don't pay enough. I have state taxes. Federal taxes. Property taxes. Sales and use taxes. Payroll taxes. Workers compensation taxes. Unemployment taxes. Taxes on taxes. I have to hire a tax man to manage all these taxes and then guess what? I have to pay taxes for employing him. Government mandates and regulations and all the accounting that goes with it, now occupy most of my time. On Oct 15th, I wrote a check to the US Treasury for $288,000 for quarterly taxes. You know what my "stimulus" check was? Zero. Nada. Zilch.

The question I have is this: Who is stimulating the economy? Me, the guy who has provided 14 people good paying jobs and serves over 2,200,000 people per year with a flourishing business? Or, the single mother sitting at home pregnant with her fourth child waiting for her next welfare check? Obviously, government feels the latter is the economic stimulus of this country.

The fact is, if I deducted (read: stole) 50% of your paycheck you'd quit and you wouldn't work here. I mean, why should you? That's nuts. Who wants to get rewarded only 50% of their hard work? Well, I agree which is why your job is in jeopardy.

Here is what many of you don't understand ... to stimulate the economy you need to stimulate what runs the economy. Had suddenly government mandated to me that I didn't need to pay taxes, guess what? Instead of depositing that $288,000 into the Washington black hole, I would have spent it, hired more employees, and generated substantial economic growth. My employees would have enjoyed the wealth of that tax cut in the form of promotions and better salaries. But you can forget it now.
When you have a comatose man on the verge of death, you don't defibrillate and shock his thumb thinking that will bring him back to life, do you? Or, do you defibrillate his heart? Business is at the heart of America and always has been. To restart it, you must stimulate it, not kill it. Suddenly, the power brokers in Washington believe the poor of America are the essential drivers of the American economic engine. Nothing could be further from the truth and this is the type of change you can keep.
So where am I going with all this?

It's quite simple.
If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, my reaction will be swift and simple. I fire you. I fire your co-workers. You can then plead with the government to pay for your mortgage, your SUV, and your child's future. Frankly, it isn't my problem any more.

Then, I will close this company down, move to another country, and retire. You see, I'm done. I'm done with a country that penalizes the productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to provide jobs wi ll be destroyed, and with it, will be my citizenship.

So, if you lose your job, it won't be at the hands of the economy; it will be at the hands of a political hurricane that swept through this country, steamrolled the constitution, and will have changed its landscape forever. If that happens, you can find me sitting on a beach, retired, and with no employees to worry about....

Signed, THE BOSS

[ghostofpf1]

Please explain to me how average Joe will be impacted by O's SPENDING plan? We are going to be spent to death.

Also since you decided to jump on my manufacturing thread, please tell me why my idea wouldn't work?

We have already been spent to death on useless war efforts and bailing out big business under the prior admins watch

Sorry....what manufacturing thread are you talking about ??
Steve

[Steven Vaccaro]

We have already been spent to death on useless war efforts and bailing out big business under the prior admins watch

Sorry....what manufacturing thread are you talking about ??
Steve

Ah the blame game. I should have known an answer like that was coming, for the simple reason that if Obama plays that game why shouldn't his herd.

What a crock of crap this is, "I found this deficit when I showed up". Seems by his campaign speeches that he knew about the problem for several months. If he wasn't man enough to take the heat, he should have quit.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Egneg, nice post. But imagine the gaul (spelling?) of that company owner. He actually wants to keep his profits? Shouldn't he be working for the greater good of the country and pay everything he makes to the government?

[ghostofpf1]

Ah the blame game. I should have known an answer like that was coming, for the simple reason that if Obama plays that game why shouldn't his herd.

What a crock of crap this is, "I found this deficit when I showed up". Seems by his campaign speeches that he knew about the problem for several months. If he wasn't man enough to take the heat, he should have quit.

If the shoe fits....


When did Obama say he only just two weeks ago realized that this nation has huge deficits on multiple fronts ??
Still wondering which "Manufacturing thread" I dissed you in

Steve

[raptor347]

I don't usually get into these discussions!

Steven,
Amen to building things here again. We can build anything if we set our minds to it.

Look at our hobby as a representative cross section of our society. Very few are willing to dedicate themselves to being able to make it from scratch. I've been active in the modeling since I was 5 years old (I've played with just about everything except indoor freeflight). The whole time watching the ability of the average modeler dwindle to the point of being operators rather than modelers. There is a reason I like to play at the extreme ends of the hobby, you can't buy everything and the people who play there are generally very capable/motivated! I'm not saying there aren't capable people out there everywhere, just not in the numbers we once had.

The same can be seen in all areas of society. We've become a nation of fat, lazy observers who feel the world owes them something (generalization here). If WWII occured with todays society we'd be speaking Japanese and German when it was over.

At the end of the day you need to have produced something from your work. At the same time, if what you produced isn't a descent value, don't be suprised if nobody wants it (look at car sales last month, Subaru and Hyundai made the only gains).

The current housing/financial nightmare has been coming for 40 years now. Both parties are guilty of running the country pretty poorly. Greedy individuals, big business and the government all share responsibility. Greed and sub-prime loans. Why are we suprised by the failures?

A couple I know just lost their house, I have no pity. The upgraded houses every 18 months while the boom was going. The last house was $800k+ with a nasty balloon payment. Oops, the bubble burst and they can't sell it. Now explain to me how a nurse and teacher with 2 kids should be in that house in the first place. The original house they bought 6 years ago was small (OK, the size of the place I grew up in) but nice and roughly $220k. Greed, bigger, better, more. This was the same couple who gave my wife and I a bad time for moving to Oregon and buying a "cheap" house with a fixed mortgage we could afford (do you know how hard it was to get a fixed rate loan in 2005).

The spending package won't fix anything in the long run. You can't spend your way to prosperity. The values of our society need a serious overhaul.

Don't get me started on education.