State of the Economy

[m4a1usr]

I didn't ask the correct question, I'm looking to find out the percentage of people that physically can not work. Either handicapped or for other reasons. I'm wondering if that group is getting larger?

The answer is yes. Actually H E double tooth picks yes. Go to the Social Secturity Web site and look under their FAQ section. There they have, amidst the questions, links to material that is appropriate to that question. Somewhere on that page you will find a link showing the growth of US citizens who applied for disability (and received)payments based upon application approval. It started back in the early 60's. The percentage jumped by leaps and bounds. In the 70's it got a little worse (percentage of growth) and it stayed sort of flat until the 90's. After that its been ever increasing and in the last 10 years it has skyrocketed to levels that cannot be sustaned.

Now remember. This money comes out of the Treasury to the social security adminstration. It doesnt come out of the SS taxes we pay. At least not from the collection fund. However,.......................... adminstration costs ARE shared. While the pots of money might be slightly of a different color fed employees who work to pay you what you payed in also pay the disabled. So there is a "blending" of money. Thats fact.

The gawd awefull truth is disabilty is becoming the fast track for those who have no other alternative in their ability to live. They have already used all of their state benefits, never worked enough (or ever) to have a retirement (whether privately funded or SS). This will be a monsterous hot potatoe for some future adminstration. And soon. The monies being paid are 100% funded by you and me. Its added to the national debt. Theres no funding allocated based on sustainabilty. Its just an expenditure added to our taxes.

The worse part is at the rate its growing there will have to be a day when the answer is no. You will starve. You will die. You qualify for nothing. The question is who wants to be the one making that statement to them?

John

[domwilson]

It was asked before. What is the one thing that the government does well? I think we've found the answer. They lie. They divide the people with non-existent ideologies that they themselves don't adhere to except when it is election time. The republicans say they want smaller government but the government grew under their watch. The Democrats say they want more domestic
responsibility yet spending has gone out of control. Where were/are both parties concerning the national debt.? Where else? Grandstanding. Neither side is taking the debt seriously. So why should we?

[sundog]

We at present are experiencing a civil war in congress. The spendy side has cut their spending, but still need to tax the uppercrust to make ends meet. The no-spendys won’t approve any plan that includes taxing the uppercrust, so stalemate. But this isn’t a game - if we can’t compromise a viable solution - and we wind up defaulting on foreign loans, it may have a domino effect felt around the world. And our lifestyle could change dramatically, and quickly. I would hope the uppercrust would agree to pay more to keep this from occurring. When the masses run out of necessities and hope, you may find yourself constantly watching over your shoulder. But then, the oil speculators are getting greedy and ballsy and (knowing we all require fuel), seem to care less. Maybe this is the trend.

[T.S.Davis]

I would hope the uppercrust would agree to pay more to keep this from occurring.

But why would they agree to pay more? Let's say they feel that tug of generosity that most real humans do. Why on earth would they agree to send more money to the gov't? Our govt. has proven over and over and over again that it can't be trusted. They'll spend the extra to fly the first family to the moon or research cow farts. It's really frustrating. They could have a larger impact by going down town and helping homeless people hands on.

The upper crust already do pay more. Plus, the many they employ pay too. I realize you didn't exactly say this but the notion that the wealthy don't pay their "fair" share is maddening. What's "fair"? It always comes around to "what do they need that much money for?".....or....."they can afford it". Like ability to pay somehow makes it "fair".

Example.....20% of a $300,000 income is $60,000. Will the guy making that kind of coin receive $60,000 worth of services? Does he cost the govt 60k? Nope. What if he finds enough deductions to weasel his taxable and ends up down to 10%. Still $30,000. Lot's of people gross that per year. He gets $30,000 worth of services? nope He pays because he can not because it's "fair".

Another example. Same guy. Has a banner year. Pays his 10% of $500,000. Maybe he has 50 employees making $30,000 that pay 10% after deductions. We wont count any sales taxes or property tax or the myriad of other BS tax we pay. Just income. He and his company are sending $200,000 to the government. 200k because ambitious guy found a niche and put 50 people to work. The wealthy are evil.

I wonder how much money for the govt. a company like General Motors produces. Enough to fund a small country I'll bet.

[ray schrauwen]

I wonder how much money for the govt. a company like General Motors produces. Enough to fund a small country I'll bet.

I bet they give nothing to the Gov. In fact I think they have been subsidized...

It ain't the people making $200,000, or 2 million. It's those with the 100's of billions & trillions I think most people are saying WTH? What do they need to hold onto all that for when it could eliminate poverty etc...

Let the $300,000 people be, they make America great!!!

[sundog]

T.S. Davis - Yes, of course you're right - and your solution to this mess is....?

[ray schrauwen]

The Quadrillion dollar question...

[Steven Vaccaro]

I would hope the uppercrust would agree to pay more to keep this from occurring.

Last time I checked this is OUR country. ALL of US, not just the "uppercrust". Why not have EVERYONE pay MORE? Why should 50% of the country pay NO Federal taxes? Go into a local convenient store in a poor area. They are stocked with cigarettes and scratch cards at the front counter. There is a reason for that, the front counter is where all the top selling items are kept. Last time I checked, in Massachusetts, a pack of cigarettes is about $9.00. I think they the half of the country that pays little to nothing should start to kick in.

[Steven Vaccaro]

What do they need to hold onto all that for when it could eliminate poverty etc...

Are you serious Ray? Imagine if you inherited 100 million dollars, how would you like it if the gov said, you really dont need all of that. You should be able to get by on a 1/2 million or so.

[T.S.Davis]

T.S. Davis - Yes, of course you're right - and your solution to this mess is....?

That's just it. I don't have one. Not a good one at least. I guess I'm just bitching. Part of the problem too.

The only thing I can think of that would actually be "fair" is a flat tax. There has to be something I'm missing though because that's too simple.

I mentioned this before. We need a mind set do over. We need to look in the mirror. The haves need to question if they are doing enough for their fellow man and the have nots need to ask how they can become independent. Somewhere in the middle is nirvana.

[Flying Scotsman]

Lads, I hate to say it you are a great country but with CASH problems, can you fix it?...and are you willing to pay the piper?

Douggie

[T.S.Davis]

I had the inheritance discussion with an extremely liberal relative about 10 years ago. She didn't think family should inherit ANY of their families wealth. Her argument was that "well, they didn't earn it". Years later her mother and her husbands mother both suffered from dementia. The care gobbled up their life savings in no time. They had to move them back home. I wonder how she feels now about inheritance and if families earn it now.

Come on Ray. You've been spouting on about the conspiracies for as long as I've known you. Do you really believe there are trillionaires in the states? If there were, how many peoples tables are filled with food that was paid for by jobs generated by the trillionaires? Stop think about some bucket of cash somewhere. That's not how it works. The truly diabolically rich got that way by being industrious, pooling resources, and investing in something with a return. Be it a business or 50 businesses.

The tax brackets go like this:

10% Bracket $0 – $8,500
15% Bracket $8,500 – $34,500
25% Bracket $34,500 – $83,600
28% Bracket $83,600 – $174,400
33% Bracket $174,400 – $379,150
35% Bracket $379,150+ $379,150+ $379,150+

That's married filing jointly I believe. How does the family making $379,151 cost our gov. $7583 more than the family making $379,149 dollars? They sure do pay that. The family that has that kind of income uses/receives not a single benefit from all of the social programs they are funding. They wont be collecting unemployment...ever. Not likely any medicaid or even medicare.

I'm not suggesting the wealthy (the govs def 379k) should not have to pay. But why do they pay so much? 379k guy pays $12507 and $34500 guy pays $5175. 379k guy receives no benefits from the gov at all. He's not buying more product. He doesn't cost the gov more money by being successful. He's paying more because he can and because if he doesn't he'll be locked up. Charity at gun point is robbery.

Sorry about the rant guys. Lunch and I type fast. I hope you all know this is a friendly discussion and I mean no disrespect to any of you.

[domwilson]

It would be nice if some of the people and corporations would pay taxes instead of receiving subsidies. This happens at both ends of the economic
spectrum. There are people, most of them in fact, who need assistance and go out of their way to be productive. For some reason, some tend to focus on the small number of "free loaders" who abuse the system. But the costs are minimal in comparison to corporate "freeloaders" who pay little to no taxes or receive subsidies. Then they boldly report record profits. So why are they still getting subsidies? Let's not focus on which end of the economic spectrum some may be. Let's focus on the abusers of the system. Make sure they pay and not drain our financial resources.

[Darin Jordan]

Lads, I hate to say it you are a great country but with CASH problems, can you fix it?...and are you willing to pay the piper?

Douggie

We can't fix it if we continue having a morons in DC spending $278,000 per new job being created... and spending like drunken sailors on things that don't contribute to a healthy economy...

[Steven Vaccaro]

379k guy pays $12507 and $34500 guy pays $5175.

the 379k guy pays close to $130,000 in fed taxes, not to mention if his state has an income tax.